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Desperate and Sad..failure at the exams

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ck1
Member

Joined:	Mon Nov 6th, 2006
Location:	Nueva York
Posts:	257
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, BD/MM, CD, BT
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Mana:

Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 09:53 pm

Quote

Hey Guys:

i dont know what to do I have now failed five exams(Structures, CD, MM, PD,Site PLanning)in a row.. i have passed LF .I study, I talk on the forum and I practice with practice exams. Obviously I am not doing something right-- I need help..any thoughts would be appreciated.

Side note if anyone is in NYC I would be really happy to study and learn with a partner..any volunteers?

METHOD-I study: flashcards, ballast, kaplan

i have went to thadius seminar, and funkarch studio class.

Sincerely,

Helpless and Despaired

Damn NCARB
Banned

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Mana:

Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 11:15 pm

Quote

It would help if you could share your education & professional experience.

There may be some hard choices for you very soon.

While the ARE is often a world unto itself, it does the job it's supposed to.

I have no doubt that some who pass are incompetent. But I would be shocked to find someone with the aptitude and experience to be an architect who could not get through it.

My view was different with the paper version due to scheduling limitations and the graphic sections. ARE3+ is much, much easier.

You'll get plenty of support here. You'll be encouraged to fight through it and don't give up. That's good and you must do what's right for you. But I've been in this business long enough to know that it's not for everyone -- even if you have qualified for the exam.

Good luck in whatever you chose. Anxious to see your experience.

QUIKSILVER
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 01:03 am

Quote

Don't feel bad....

There's others on this forum that have worst track records....but are still trying to get through this thing, just like you are....

So just stick with the forum, and we'll lead you in the right direction...

Q..

PS - DN makes a good point.....it would be nice to know what your background is (as far as schooling and work experience is concerned)...

mxw7860
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 01:15 am

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Dude!

I see what you are studying (material wise), the question is "how are you studying?"

I took one of the funkaar studio courses and thought it was very helpful in two ways.

1. Learn to not over analyse the questions, if you have taken the mock Kaplan exams, you can learn how you might be over thinking the question, on the spot with ZERO consequnce, its just you and the information, you know? If you want to look at it from a "I just want to pass" level all you need is 75% correct which is totally do able if you know what and how to study.

2. The other test taking tip I picked up is to understand the language and or wording of the questions, observing keywords...and truly understanding what is being asked in the question. Makes all the world of the difference. I actually proved this to myself taking Kaplan and BALLAST mock exams...keywords totally tell you what it is you SHOULD be paying attention to in the question.

Here is an example of a question that caught me in BALLAST

WHAT FEE METHOD IF PREFERABLE WHEN A CLIENT IS DOING HIS OR HER FIRST ARCHITECTURAL PROJECT AND DOES NOT YET HAVE A PROGRAM?

A. FIXED SUM
B. MULT. Of DIRECT PERSONNEL EXPNS
C. %-AGE Of CONSTRUCTION COST
D. UNIT COST BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE.

my initial answer was WRONG because I was focusing entirely on the per-view of the client...this is a trick question, because the question is really asking for the best answer that YOU the ARCHITECT would prefer which is B...

You have to have a strategy my friend.

So lets say you have prepared book wise, how have you prepared your mental toughness.

I will let you know how all this positive thinking works...I am taking CD tomorrow. :cool:

Not to mention you have atleast one more time for all of them until 4.0 drops, maybe two if you space them close enough because you passed atleast one 3.1 exam before the cut off approaching this June of 2008

Last edited on Wed Sep 26th, 2007 01:17 am by mxw7860

gouged
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 01:38 am

Quote

In my opinion, I agree to some degree that work & educational experience obviously helps which is a no brainer.

However, I must ask you one question: How have you been reading through your tests on test day. What I mean is, how many passes have you making through the entire test:

1. One incremental pass as a whole

2. Mark/Skip some of the more difficult questions and only answer the easy ones first.

3. Some very fast readers (not me, I wish I could do this!) have made up to 3-5 passes of the entire set of questions within the exam time

The key is TIME MANAGEMENT ALONG WITH MENTAL TOUGHNESS. I would like to know how has your performance been on TEST DAY. Are you finding yourself running out of time or are you finishing the entire test with ample time to spare or what...?

Other strategies include: Watch out for the negativelly-worded questions, Know how to eliminate the incorrect answers of the type that is I and II, II and IV, III and IV. With these type of questions, two are usually right and two are usually wrong. Its the process of elimination. (of course I'm guessing you already know this by now, sorry I don't mean to act like I know it all, because I have failed 3 mc tests myself but have now re-taken and passed 2 of those 3 thankfully).

Also, If you have the Ballast book "Arch. Exam Review: solved problems: multiple choice divisions, there is a beginning section titled "INTRODUCTION" where he gives TIPS ON TAKING THE TEST which was very, very helpful to me. I suggest start with these tips if can somehow have access to this book or maybe you should buy the book. I have used it and it is a good supplement for mock questions along with Archiflash and Kaplan mock books.

Hang in there. I think you can do it. By the way, also how long has your prep time for studying been in terms of weeks?

Keep the faith and stick with it. If I can pass these tests so can you, because I am not a good test taker.

Anyways, good luck and GOD BLESS.

Last edited on Wed Sep 26th, 2007 01:40 am by gouged

pjw400
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 02:25 am

Quote

Ck1,

You have to stay positive and stay focus. Quicksilver, mxw7860, Gouged and Damn Ncarb made some good points. You are not alone I too had fail different portion of the A.R.E. I was determine to not let the A.R.E get me down. I changed my study habit which help a lot in passing the A.R.E. I'm not a good test taker and have to reread the exam questions two or three time and perform process of elimination. I took mpe for the second time around last week and I had a lot of enviromental questions so I'm giving myself 50/50 chance that I'll pass but I know how to improve my study for mpe if I have to take it again.

ck1
Member

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Posts:	257
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 04:27 pm

Quote

Thank you all:

for all your advice.

First let me start:

Experience-

Graduated Pratt 2002 and worked in a structural engineering/architecture firm for 2 yrs. /SOM 2 yrs. /and project manager for a university since then.

I agree how i study is probably my problem-- i am a relatively smart individual, but i think i read through the material and skim trying to focus on what i think is imporatant material. I think the way i test is also questionable, i go through the exam answer all questions and mark those I am not sure of, which is usually 50% than I go back and try to rethink the answers. I usually have enough time except for BP-which I totally ran out of time on IL, andSD- site design layour first vignette-ran out of time (this is the are that was marked poorly or under satisfaction)in my fail results.

I guessI need help to understand how to study and how to read the questions: what tools can I use? The ARE language I find is poorly composed, it also doesnt help that my vernacular is not up to par. What tools can I use for this??

Thank you All: you guys are great!!

Damn Ncarb: I appreciate your time but am confused as how you can reccommend a carreer change, after attending school and working in the field--I would think it is pretty obvious that a career change is not about to happen. You remind me of my prefessors and all those egotistic students from school who thought they had a gift that no one else could ever possess..you have to realize architecture is a talent but more so it is a techincal ability that is learned over time. I will not be giving up.

And I thank all the others who reccommend ways to move forward. This should be a lesson to all others reading this: that people and ARE may want to stop you..but you have to keep going, dont loose cofidence!!

It should be noted some of the great architects failed several portions of the exams repeatedly, specifically the design portions.

Last edited on Wed Sep 26th, 2007 07:14 pm by ck1

Meigs9
Architect

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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 04:42 pm

Quote

ck1 wrote:
i go through the exam answer all questions and mark those I am not sure of, which is usually 50% than I go back and try to rethink the answers.

CK,

I don't think that is necessarily a bad approach. I do the same thing, except during the tutorial, I number my scrap paper 1 to 105(or whatever the # of Qs). During the exam, I write down my answer to every question (A,B,C or D) but on the questions I marked, which is alot, I also mark my "secondary" answer and/or answers that I have eliminated. For example, if I know it is not answer "B", I write "B" and put a slash through it. With this method, when I go back through the questions I have "notes" on what my initial thoughts were on the question, which is a big time saver. If I come down to trying to pick between 2 answers, 99% of the time I go with my initial answer.

This method has worked for me on the MCs.

Good luck.

~m

monkeydo
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Location:	ARCHITECT, Virginia USA
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 04:57 pm

Quote

ck1-

As for the graphics- do you have norman dorf's solutions book? if not, you should get it. i believe this is a vital tool in understanding how the graphic vignettes are graded. also, if you have not been practicing with the graphics software- you should. BP's IL vignette is all about time management.

As for the M/C exams- do you have the Kaplan/ALS CD-Rom study guides? I really like using these because while going through it, it tells you right away if your answer is correct and then tells you the reasoning for the correct answer.

andrea
Member

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Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
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Mana:

Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 06:10 pm

Quote

ck1 -

If you feel you are weak in multiple choice test taking, here are two posts that may be of help to you in developing your approach to the questions:

http://www.areforum.org/forums/forum10/8654.html

http://www.areforum.org/forums/forum10/7701.html (obviously not all the advice in this post is relevant.)

good luck!

andrea

Last edited on Wed Sep 26th, 2007 06:12 pm by andrea

ka24de
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Mana:

Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 12:15 am

Quote

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

Confucius

Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do.

Confucius

Last edited on Thu Sep 27th, 2007 12:15 am by ka24de

m-salad
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Mana:

Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 12:17 am

Quote

Damn Ncarb: I appreciate your time but am confused as how you can reccommend a carreer change, after attending school and working in the field--I would think it is pretty obvious that a career change is not about to happen. You remind me of my prefessors and all those egotistic students from school who thought they had a gift that no one else could ever possess..you have to realize architecture is a talent but more so it is a techincal ability that is learned over time. I will not be giving up.

And I thank all the others who reccommend ways to move forward. This should be a lesson to all others reading this: that people and ARE may want to stop you..but you have to keep going, dont loose cofidence!!

It should be noted some of the great architects failed several portions of the exams repeatedly, specifically the design portions.

I couldn't agree more. I have only passed two of the six exams so far and I can't imagine that after 6 years of busting my butt and getting as far as I have in my firm, that I would toss that all out because of some exams.

Failing these exams is very, very common. We mostly hear from people on the forum who are passing the exams. Most people are afraid to be candid about it, and there are hundreds of ARE candidates out there who flunked more than a few, and are now licensed but never shared their stories.

However, there are some folks out there who feel that "poor test taking=poor architect" and we threaten their idea of who should be allowed to practice architecture.

They also don't know the joy of getting something after a struggle, and the feeling of overcoming your weaknesses after facing them head on. There's nothing sweeter....and it builds great character

I wish you success and please keep us posted!

P.S. Hillary Clinton flunked the bar exam her first try.....

QUIKSILVER
Member

Joined:	Fri Mar 10th, 2006
Location:	Land Of Oppurtunity, USA
Posts:	1369
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
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Describes Me:	Optimistic individual whom believes that Failure teaches Success!!!!....
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Mana:

Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 01:15 am

Quote

m-salad wrote: <snip>
They also don't know the joy of getting something after a struggle, and the feeling of overcoming your weaknesses after facing them head on. There's nothing sweeter....and it builds great character

<snip>

This has to be the most fulfilling statement I've read for a while on this forum....

For those of us that have failed so many already.....this is exactly why it's worth it not give up...

Right on M-salad!..

Q..

Damn NCARB
Banned

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Mana:

Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 01:57 am

Quote

ck1 wrote: Thank you all:

for all your advice.

First let me start:

Experience-

Graduated Pratt 2002 and worked in a structural engineering/architecture firm for 2 yrs. /SOM 2 yrs. /and project manager for a university since then.

I agree how i study is probably my problem-- i am a relatively smart individual, but i think i read through the material and skim trying to focus on what i think is important material. I think the way i test is also questionable, i go through the exam answer all questions and mark those I am not sure of, which is usually 50% than I go back and try to rethink the answers. I usually have enough time except for BP-which I totally ran out of time on IL, and SD- site design layour first vignette-ran out of time (this is the are that was marked poorly or under satisfaction)in my fail results.

I guessI need help to understand how to study and how to read the questions: what tools can I use? The ARE language I find is poorly composed, it also doesnt help that my vernacular is not up to par. What tools can I use for this??

Thank you All: you guys are great!!

Damn Ncarb: I appreciate your time but am confused as how you can reccommend a carreer change, after attending school and working in the field--I would think it is pretty obvious that a career change is not about to happen. You remind me of my prefessors and all those egotistic students from school who thought they had a gift that no one else could ever possess..you have to realize architecture is a talent but more so it is a techincal ability that is learned over time. I will not be giving up.

And I thank all the others who reccommend ways to move forward. This should be a lesson to all others reading this: that people and ARE may want to stop you..but you have to keep going, dont loose cofidence!!

It should be noted some of the great architects failed several portions of the exams repeatedly, specifically the design portions.

Well, I know part of your problem.

I said this business is not for everyone. Not knowing your schooling or experience, I did not say whether or not this was the case for you in particular.

Now that I have a better idea of your history, it's clear to me that your's is a case of poor prep &/or poor test day strategy.

These things can be fixed. The biggest decision you now face moving forward is deciding when and how you want to proceed -- continue with 3.1 or wait for 4.0? You're the only one who can answer that question.

Regardless of the test path you choose, you're at the prime test-taking window relative to your career -- out of school long enough to get good experience and not too far gone to have forgotten all the things most of us learn in school and never or rarely use in practice (at least not to the degree required to pass).

So top priority for you, and you know this, is learning how to test. For graphics it's easy. USE THIS FORUM! There is no single item that will guarantee success more. Of course, effective use of the graphic fora require working the practice software hard and posting your solutions.

For MC it's a matter of not getting overwhelmed, concentrating on relevant material and having confidence in your answers. I've posted more than once recently that it seems many are over studying for the MC sections. When I say over study, I'm not talking about time but rather, subject matter.

Some of your experience appears to lack in areas that would have helped in some of the sections. That may be an advantage because too much real world knowledge can mess with you where this exam is concerned. But not knowing what areas you were weak in on previous attempts, it's hard to know. I know it's painful, but be cognizant of the items listed on those fail letters.

The most important thing you can do is relax and approach the exam like you would any project at work. Know the problem, learn what's important, get the tools you need, find the solution and have confidence that you're providing the client the best.

You are your own client. Don't let the client down.

stl-guy
Architect

Joined:	Mon Jan 16th, 2006
Location:	St. Louis, Missouri USA
Posts:	3587
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Mana:

Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 02:19 am

Quote

ck1 wrote: Hey Guys:

i dont know what to do I have now failed five exams(Structures, CD, MM, PD,Site PLanning)in a row.. i have passed LF .I study, I talk on the forum and I practice with practice exams. Obviously I am not doing something right-- I need help..any thoughts would be appreciated.

Side note if anyone is in NYC I would be really happy to study and learn with a partner..any volunteers?

METHOD-I study: flashcards, ballast, kaplan

i have went to thadius seminar, and funkarch studio class.

Sincerely,

Helpless and Despaired

Start over. Begin with a different strategy and a different attitude. Accept the fact that it might take you longer than others.

Architecture and design requires skilled technical people and creative artists. One type person uses one side of the brain more while the other uses the other side. Each type responds differently to this type of testing.

I would approach each division separately. Rather than gamble, study each division enough. Four weeks may be sufficient for some candidates but if it takes you more time to comprehend the information, that is the amount of time you will need to devote to study.

How long are most college courses? 4 weeks? 12 weeks? Study for ARE is like going back to school.

Don't forget the reference materials listed for each division. Have a look at these books. Kaplen and Ballast are not architectural texts, only quick refresher guides.

Continue to get help and tips from this forum. Find study partners if possible.

A Pratt grad is going to usually do fine.

ck1
Member

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Location:	Nueva York
Posts:	257
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 01:23 am

Quote

Again: Thank you ALL..what a great and overwhelming response. My confidence is rebuilding with each post

A special shout-out to M-salad...you bring happiness to my heart

If anyone is in the NYC or just NY area and will like to study in a group or need a partner, please let me know. Two brains work better than one!!

Arch_Hero66
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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 02:47 am

Quote

I failed all three graphic exams. I passed BP on the second try and will take SP again soon. I still have to wait 5 more months to take BT again. It's a real bummer when it happens, especially when your watching others glide through. So maybe it takes you longer, but if you perservere you will get there.

Without failure success can't exist. Gotta drive on.

Far Galaxy
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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 02:53 am

Quote

ck1 wrote: Again: Thank you ALL..what a great and overwhelming response. My confidence is rebuilding with each post

A special shout-out to M-salad...you bring happiness to my heart

stl-guy
Architect

Joined:	Mon Jan 16th, 2006
Location:	St. Louis, Missouri USA
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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 03:37 am

Quote

Far Galaxy wrote: ck1 wrote: Again: Thank you ALL..what a great and overwhelming response. My confidence is rebuilding with each post

A special shout-out to M-salad...you bring happiness to my heart

If anyone is in the NYC or just NY area and will like to study in a group or need a partner, please let me know. Two brains work better than one!!

Hey ck1,

I just took the graphic portion of ARE, and as ridiculous as it sounds, I loved the graphic tests. I actually enjoyed drawing up my solution for each test at the test center. And only my last graphic exam, the BP, it was hard, but I kept telling myself this would be the last chance for me to take the graphic exam, so I need to enjoy it. So, I made it through the hard part of the test and it's all because of confidence.

I am sure not a good test taker, that's a guarantee. And MC part is a train wreck for me. I am now studying for BM/MM 3hrs everyday of the wkdays and both days in the weekends. I printed every lil piece of study guide on FTP and many good posts from the forum. I've been reading and reading and read.............so much of it since last weekend and still I am a nervous wreck knowing I am supposed to know much about CD, PD, some LF, some ME and bunch of sustainable crap. My test is going to be 4 weeks from now and of all devisions, I am better at Materials. That's the reason why I signed up for it. Now, I realize that I have to cover for the other portions of MC to successfully nail MM. My brain is fried now. Can't feel anything else. But I know I will make it.

So, my 2 cents to you: Keep you confidence hi, and stay very focus while you are writing the exams.

Also, I think you should spend more time studying. It sounded to me that you haven't truly studied enuf for the exams. You need to keep pressuring and reminding yourself that you "desperately need" your license and do all the reading you should do to prep. for the exams.

Hope you can make it through soon.

All of what you say is good advice and support for your peers.

Please elaborate some though if you can.

Why is passing each division very important to you?

How much time is needed for you? Wait and study more or go for it?

Why is it important to study and PRACTICE for ARE (duh)?

Why do you desperately need your licence?

What is your Time line for ARE completion?

The ARE is very stressful for most. Please think and and kindly respond to the the above with careful though.

STL

Far Galaxy
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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 03:51 am

Quote

stl-guy wrote: Far Galaxy wrote: ck1 wrote: Again: Thank you ALL..what a great and overwhelming response. My confidence is rebuilding with each post

A special shout-out to M-salad...you bring happiness to my heart

Last edited on Sun Sep 30th, 2007 04:09 am by Far Galaxy

stl-guy
Architect

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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 04:13 am

Quote

Far Galaxy wrote: stl-guy wrote: Far Galaxy wrote: ck1 wrote: Again: Thank you ALL..what a great and overwhelming response. My confidence is rebuilding with each post

A special shout-out to M-salad...you bring happiness to my heart

jk
Member

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Mana:

Posted: Sun Sep 30th, 2007 03:41 pm

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My advice:

Sounds like you have plenty of experience - forget all that. The study guides (I used Kaplan, Ballast, and archiflash for the MCs and Dorf and NCARB study guide for the graphics) will give you all the info you need to pass. Read them. Live them.

What I found most helpful was taking the practice tests, esp the cd rom versions from Kaplan. The language is definitely what tripped me up the most on the tests so getting accustomed to the way questions are phrased was helpful to me. I had the test bank cds and the q&a books. It gets repetitive, but that's good. Drill it in.

I set up a space in my house, set up my laptop, walked out of the room, walked back in with my calculator some 8X11 white scrap paper and two pencils and started the timer. I didn't get up from the desk or check my email until I finished the test. I know it sounds silly, but I get major test anxiety so replaying the official testing scenario as part of studying really helped me. I passed all the MCs, BT, and BP first time (still waiting on SP). I'm not trying to brag. It wasn't easy and I dedicatetd a lot of time to uninterrupted disciplined studying (alone in a room, no music, no internet...)

One more suggestion, the forum is a great resource, but I wouldn't count it as studying (no offense to us all on the forum). Your time is probably better spent reading or going through practice tests and flashcards. Don't get distracted. Check in with the forum in your "free" time. LOL.

Good luck! You can do it!

shiou
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Joined:	Mon Jun 18th, 2007
Location:	LEED A.P., Texas USA
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Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Mon Oct 1st, 2007 12:21 am

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i think one of the main reasons why we fail the multiple choise exams is because the questions are so poorly worded (courtesy of NCARB)...

i don't think any of us really go into these exams without diligent studying and preparation... do not feel bad for yourself... i am sure you took the exams when you felt you were ready... but a part of taking exams (any exam) is knowing how to read & interpret the questions and how to interpret and choose the MOST CORRECT answer...

don't overthink the question... don't overthink the solution... find a thoughtful balance... with more practice you will understand...

don't give up :cool:

tidalwave1
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Joined:	Wed Dec 13th, 2006
Location:	Alexandria, Virginia USA
Posts:	99
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
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