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scientist
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Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2007 12:18 am |
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I just read the latest proposal in our firm. We are listed as draftsmen/ tech., even not designers! Or not intern architects! It is so sad. A group of young interns graduated from architectural school with either master or bachelor degree are called draftsmen. Even though I agree that we are doing draft work 99% of the time.
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Spellcaster
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Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2007 02:12 am |
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I think you mentioned in another post that you're in CA. If so, your state doesn't permit the term "intern architect". So your firm could call you "interns", but they can't use the words "architect", "architecture", or "architectural" in your titles.
Usually these job titles in proposals have everything to do with justifying the firm's fee to the client and little to do with how each of you would like to see yourself defined. For instance a client reading a proposal is more likely to accept a need for five "draftsmen", which seems plausible for production purposes, than for five "designers", which might sound excessive.
The firms I worked in as an intern used terms like "production support" and "technical specialist" for interns.
Don't get hung up on titles. They're mostly for marketing purposes and there are so many reasons that firms choose the ones they use. Besides the various state rules about whether or not firms can use "architect" or any of its variations in titles, insurance companies also play a role in these decisions as they usually discourage the use of the word "manager" for anyone who isn't licensed.
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idealist
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Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2007 07:01 pm |
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well said, Spellcaster, we shouldn't get hung up on titles... especially if the title fits our job description...
still, it's hard to suck it up sometimes when the office manager or some of the senior architects constantly refer to you as just another technician. this may be offensive to technicians, but we do (or are supposed to do) different things, and are given (or are supposed to be given) more responsability. this is simply a function of education and, i daresay, intellectual capacity (i know, i know, even more offensive... but i work in a 50+ person office where it is quite evident what some can and cannot do)
Scientist, if your experience is 99% drafting, i suggest pushing for more variety. you should feel as though it were your right to round out your experience. when i started my internship i thought it would be the construction drawing hours that would be hardest to get... little did i know that it was the easiest category!
as for designing, something i think we all want to do more of, i say push for that too. i still maintain that all the technical, program stuffing, and administrative crap is something any reasonably intelligent person can do, but design... that's all about talent. if you plan on staying at your firm long term, push to be a designer. otherwise, suck it up, learn all the other skills needed to hold the title, and console yourself with the fact that you will one day be your own boss and call the design shots.
just be nice to your interns when you do.
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CA Girl
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Posted: Mon Mar 19th, 2007 01:32 am |
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In my office and to clients we are project managers but when it comes to billing we are CAD (Computer draftsman). This has everything to do with the rate we are billed out at. We are definitely respected by the architects in the office. I would also suggest if you are doing 99% drafting that you need to have a discussion regaurding your role in the firm.
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Lmcohen
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 09:25 pm |
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| Another title alternative is Design Associate. I'm responsible for the majority of the proposals issued by our office, so I get to choose our titles, and I find it to be the most appropriate. The word "Intern" has affiliations with high school/college students, and as mentioned in another post, the word "architect" cannot be used for an unlicensed individual. At least with "Design Associate" there is some reference to our education and area of expertise.
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gsaarinen
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Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 12:49 am |
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| I was promoted to the title "coordinating architect" prior to finishing the ARE. My previous title was Facility Planner.I had one test left. My boss said Pass the Damn Test!I wrote my state board and they had no opinion. They just mailed me the rules and said you decide. Second note, I work in K-12 School district as an owner's rep and do not practice. I took the title in December and a nice raise. January 5th passed the ARE. A long story-pass the test!
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joe78joe
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| Location: | Lexington, Kentucky USA |
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 12:16 pm |
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| Some states have taken a position on "correct" terminology. Architects here in KY are really touchy about using the term "architect". The states arch. board suggests the term "architectural intern". I used to be marketed as a "job captain" at my previous firm.
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phly1001
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 06:40 pm |
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| Everyone always asks me why I am so motivated to pass these tests - and why so soon after graduation. And this thread pretty much sums it up. I want to be able to refer to myself by an unambiguous title. And not have to explain to people that "intern" doesn't mean unpaid, or uneducated, etc. I just want to answer "I'm an architect".... and leave it at that. That's my sole motivation. Simplicity.
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AbracaPocus
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 07:59 pm |
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Well, I passed all the tests and can unequivocally say "I'm an architect." I have the stamp, and my license on the wall, and business cards that say I'm an architect.
However, in proposals my firm uses only two distinctions for billing purposes: "Partners" and "Designers/Drafters".
This is because grouping all of the staff together results in a lower "blended" rate, so it looks better in proposals. In other words, since there are about twice as many intern-level people whose billing rates are around $60 per hour, than there are licensed architect staff, whose billing rates are around $110 per hour, the "blended rate" that the firm uses in its proposals is $75 per hour (which is about the average of all the non-partner personnel). The firm feels that seeing $75 per hour for everyone will make a client feel this is a better deal than seeing $110 per hour for certain employees - even though in the end it all bills out the same...
So, even though I'm an architect on the project - and introduced to clients as such - I'm still listed as a "Designer/Drafter" in the proposals.Last edited on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 08:27 pm by AbracaPocus
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steph_2006
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 08:27 pm |
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It is very normal that people are called "technician" before they are licensed. Even we do not like the name "technician". My position in the firm is "project architect", but when the firm applied for my working visa, my title became" Production technicain". I felt I was a labor worker in a steel factory. But I have got over with it, now it really does not matter how they called me in proposal. My firm only have 2 positions, project architect or draftsmen. Many draftsmen are even 40 or 50 years old, not even young graduates.
I was billed at $175 as a lab planner consultant in my other job, and the firm partner was billed (AT) $225, what a huge profit that they got. It has nothing to do with license.
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indystart
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 01:30 am |
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Spellcaster wrote: The firms I worked in as an intern used terms like "production support" and "technical specialist" for interns.
Don't get hung up on titles. They're mostly for marketing purposes and there are so many reasons that firms choose the ones they use. Besides the various state rules about whether or not firms can use "architect" or any of its variations in titles, insurance companies also play a role in these decisions as they usually discourage the use of the word "manager" for anyone who isn't licensed.
I think you're right.
Moreover, whatever the title your mindset is more important--don't think like a draftsman, think like you're an architect (in training). I like the term apprentice. But I do think it's tough for architects because unlike our accountant/engineer/business exec friends, we're called an intern well into our late 20's/early 30s. Even med students earn the title "Doctor" not long after med school!
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rerun42
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 03:22 pm |
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| My official title is architect-in-training some in my office at my same level are intern architects. And my card says Architectural Intern. I get asked all the time if I'm still in school by non-architecture type people. It's terribly frustrating to have to explain it again and again, and again....
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One Fella
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Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 03:57 pm |
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| BEND OVER GUYS, your going to have to get used to it for the rest of your lives.
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 06:04 pm |
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Don't make the word "draftsman/drafter sound bad. Drafters or in historical terminology - Draughtsman - Old English spelling were and still are the backbone of most architectural firms.
Frank Lloyd Wright, Louis sullivan, and Louise Blanchard Bethune were all draftsman first. They learned by doing, by watching. They didn't have to go through IDP as a formal process but they did put in the time to learn what it was to be an architect.
It's unfortunate that there isn't a better transition from graduate thru IDP to eligibility of the ARE and finally passing said ARE. If IDP was a part of AIA and NCARB certification for firms then you might see more firms take getting interns thru it.
Until that happens, embrace IDP as a positive educational component. If a firm doesn't assist with it's completion, seek out firms that are empathetic and make every attempt to get hired. You might also spread the word that a particular firm isn't one that works to get interns thru IDP. That/those firm(s) will either change their practices or go out of business.
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RK
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Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 10:14 pm |
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| Yeah, draftsman is not a bad title. It's been around for a long time. I think a lot of people believe they deserve something more grand or something. It could be a lot worse. Your business card could just as easily read "cad monkey".
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stl-guy
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Posted: Sat Oct 18th, 2008 09:52 pm |
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scientist wrote:
I just read the latest proposal in our firm. We are listed as draftsmen/ tech., even not designers! Or not intern architects! It is so sad. A group of young interns graduated from architectural school with either master or bachelor degree are called draftsmen. Even though I agree that we are doing draft work 99% of the time.
It is kind of sad.
Professional engineers designate Engineers in Training as EIT.
The only thing comparable for Architects in training is to become an AIA Associate member.
I agree, there should be a better way for well educated architects in training as well as for seasoned non-degreed architectural technicians to somehow be recognized.
There is a long tradition that has been established in the architectural profession as it is. Much of it is still based on not what you know but who you know.
Last edited on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 09:53 pm by stl-guy
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