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alomu
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 02:24 am |
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I wish you well on passing your ARE exams.
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One Fella
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 03:21 pm |
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alomu wrote: I wish you well on passing your ARE exams.
That is a noble expression of sentiment on your part, thanks!
I took a few more of the divisions most recently and I'm waiting for results -I'm not Catholic but I'm currently experiencing what might be described as feeling as if I'm in Limbo as I wait for results...perhaps this is making me even more cantankerous than usual, hope we can be cordial one to another.
I'm not unaware that the tone of my writing can be interpreted as abrasive by most, its not malicious I swear, just trying to shoot straight as I said before. I often find I'm honestly perplexed why the general reaction to inside criticsim is a "lets burn the messenger" mentality. I think that if the doctor is notifying the patient of a malignant tumor the best reaction is to first carefully assess the validity of the diagnosis on its merits. Then, after a careful analysis if the conclusion is that the doctor is probably wrong then the doctor's diagnosis should be carefully disproven by the patient's findings and/or a second, thrid, fourth opinion. What if the patient's first reaction, upon being given a diagnosis of a malignant brain tumor, is to light up a bonfire and toss the doctor in?
I honestly think that this one of the biggest flaws in the profession, the inability of 95 % of architects in general to distance themselves from their egos and objectively, dispassionately review the facts and come to conclusions without hasty, shoot from the hip solutions. Its not entirely their fault, though, this approach to solving problems is encouraged by the academy and the profession every step of the way.
If architects are so busy investing so much mental blood, guts and tears into pleasing their clients (owners, fed, state, local governments, et al) why are they so negligent/ foolish in their strategies for taking care of themselves? (Kind of like when you're about to take off on an airliner and the stewardess is training everybody on the use of the oxygen masks and they make a big deal about the parent putting the mask on themselves FIRST before they go through the effort to put the mask on their child. Metaphorically, upon losing cabin pressure, most architects would immediately go around ensuring that everyone else had their oxygen mask on and then perish a few moments later).
My position is the profession has a lot to offer and 99.9% of architects invest a lot of mental blood, guts, and tears into advancing its interests. However, the potential of the profession is not being realized (50% currently at best) because the efforts are honest but the applications are misplaced.
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brudgers
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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One Fella wrote: alomu wrote: I wish you well on passing your ARE exams.
That is a noble expression of sentiment on your part, thanks!
I took a few more of the divisions most recently and I'm waiting for results -I'm not Catholic but I'm currently experiencing what might be described as feeling as if I'm in Limbo as I wait for results...perhaps this is making me even more cantankerous than usual, hope we can be cordial one to another.
I'm not unaware that the tone of my writing can be interpreted as abrasive by most, its not malicious I swear, just trying to shoot straight as I said before. I often find I'm honestly perplexed why the general reaction to inside criticsim is a "lets burn the messenger" mentality. I think that if the doctor is notifying the patient of a malignant tumor
Your diagnosis reminds me more of a duck than a doctor..... the best reaction is to first carefully assess the validity of the diagnosis on its merits. It's amazing that you are unable to recognize that this has already been done. Then, after a careful analysis if the conclusion is that the doctor is probably wrong then the doctor's diagnosis should be carefully disproven by the patient's findings This is patent nonsense! and/or a second, thrid, fourth opinion. What if the patient's first reaction, upon being given a diagnosis of a malignant brain tumor, is to light up a bonfire and toss the doctor in?
I honestly think that this one of the biggest flaws in the profession, the inability of 95 % of architects in general to distance themselves from their egos and objectively, dispassionately review the facts and come to conclusions without hasty, shoot from the hip solutions. Dispassionate review of your "facts" says there's a 5% chance that you aren't shooting from the hip. Its not entirely their fault, though, this approach to solving problems is encouraged by the academy and the profession every step of the way.
If architects are so busy investing so much mental blood, guts and tears into pleasing their clients (owners, fed, state, local governments, et al) why are they so negligent/ foolish in their strategies for taking care of themselves? (Kind of like when you're about to take off on an airliner and the stewardess is training everybody on the use of the oxygen masks and they make a big deal about the parent putting the mask on themselves FIRST before they go through the effort to put the mask on their child. Metaphorically, upon losing cabin pressure, most architects would immediately go around ensuring that everyone else had their oxygen mask on and then perish a few moments later).My position is the profession has a lot to offer and 99.9% of architects invest a lot of mental blood, guts, and tears into advancing its interests. However, the potential of the profession is not being realized (50% currently at best) because the efforts are honest but the applications are misplaced.
RWAC+1
You got one this week.
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One Fella
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 07:07 pm |
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| What a dork. Did you get your case of wine yet from Alomu? Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 07:08 pm by One Fella
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cantina23
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Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 09:02 pm |
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I am dealing with this exact issue at the moment. I have contacted NCARB and I am still waiting on a reply. I will let you know what I find out. If your boss was part of the AIA remind him that under the code of ethics it states:
Ethical standard 5.2 which states: Intern and Professional Development: Members should recognize and fulfill their obligation to nurture fellow professionals as they progress through all stages of their career, beginning with professional education in the academy, progressing through internship and continuing throughout their career.
Ethical standard 5.3 which states: Professional Recognition: Members should build their professional reputation on the merits of their own service and performance and should recognize and give credit to others for the professional work they have preformed.
Good luck and if whatever you do happens to work, give me a heads up and i'll try it too. (i'll do the same..good luck)
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stl-guy
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Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 06:36 am |
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zaiwanda wrote: I have a former employer who refuses to sign 10 months worth of employment verification for IDP. I worked for him 5 years ago and we always had problems and he has never acted professionally. Has anyone else had an employer refuse or ignore their form 162s? The guy is holding me up, I could have started the exams last year! Thanks for any help.
Amanda
I have heard of situations like this.
Have you checked with your state board to verify that he is in fact a licenced professional in good standing and that he has maintained a valid business licence?
If so, and if he still refuses, You can call you might contact your state board and or your Attorney General's office to assist in obtaining employment records.
After that, contact Harvey Falconer or Greg Hall, Director of IDP Education at NCARB for further direction and assistance. (202) 738-6500.
I believe there is a self reporting IDP form that might be used that does not require an employer signature.
Last edited on Sun Aug 24th, 2008 06:39 am by stl-guy
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dottie
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 01:43 am |
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zaiwanda wrote: I have a former employer who refuses to sign 10 months worth of employment verification for IDP. I worked for him 5 years ago and we always had problems and he has never acted professionally. Has anyone else had an employer refuse or ignore their form 162s? The guy is holding me up, I could have started the exams last year! Thanks for any help.
Amanda
Hi Zaiwanda,
You have been a year waiting for that? Well, there is your 10 months. You have already made up for that time. Just ignore those 10 months like they never happened, do your IDP stuff for the last 12 months. That makes up for the 10 months. Your current employer should be helpful? Start taking your ARE! Enjoy!
I have some past history and I don't know what NCARB is going to require from me in order to receive comity in Alaska. If I have to fill out those silly little forms for work history, I have an ex-employer who hated me leaving for Alaska, so, holds a grudge. Seemed to have taken it personally, though I just needed a change and a huge pay raise.
However, there was another architect that worked there, I am sure they will fill it out if need be. Good luck with everything, it will all work out.
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brudgers
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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cantina23 wrote: I am dealing with this exact issue at the moment. I have contacted NCARB and I am still waiting on a reply. I will let you know what I find out. If your boss was part of the AIA remind him that under the code of ethics it states:
Ethical standard 5.2 which states: Intern and Professional Development: Members should recognize and fulfill their obligation to nurture fellow professionals as they progress through all stages of their career, beginning with professional education in the academy, progressing through internship and continuing throughout their career.
Ethical standard 5.3 which states: Professional Recognition: Members should build their professional reputation on the merits of their own service and performance and should recognize and give credit to others for the professional work they have preformed.
Good luck and if whatever you do happens to work, give me a heads up and i'll try it too. (i'll do the same..good luck)
I think the penalty from AIA for violating these is two negative thoughts, one dirty look, and a smug sense of superiority.
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stl-guy
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 04:30 am |
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brudgers wrote: cantina23 wrote: I am dealing with this exact issue at the moment. I have contacted NCARB and I am still waiting on a reply. I will let you know what I find out. If your boss was part of the AIA remind him that under the code of ethics it states:
Ethical standard 5.2 which states: Intern and Professional Development: Members should recognize and fulfill their obligation to nurture fellow professionals as they progress through all stages of their career, beginning with professional education in the academy, progressing through internship and continuing throughout their career.
Ethical standard 5.3 which states: Professional Recognition: Members should build their professional reputation on the merits of their own service and performance and should recognize and give credit to others for the professional work they have preformed.
Good luck and if whatever you do happens to work, give me a heads up and i'll try it too. (i'll do the same..good luck)
I think the penalty from AIA for violating these is two negative thoughts, one dirty look, and a smug sense of superiority.
I'm AIA, but I must agree. When the going gets tough, don't expect AIA to help with this type of situation. NCARB has no real authority over state boards or state law either, so they can't be of help to you.
Your state board might hem and haw. This is actually a civil matter. If you call the governors office and complain or contact your state attorney generals office, you might actually get some action taken that will help you with the records you need.
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Nomadica
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 08:04 pm |
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The state attorney general can help with forcing the firm to provide your dates of employment and your title. But they can't help with forcing the firm to fill out your NCARB forms.
The AIA has occasionally sanctioned or censured members who have refused to cooperate with IDP reporting - but basically this just means that the AIA member gets his name printed in a list of shame.
Anyway, to get even that action the matter has to go to go to the AIA's little internal court system, and that typically takes years.
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stl-guy
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:57 am |
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alomu wrote: One Fella:
After reviewing all your posts to this forum, it appears to me that you are looking to instigate, and not help. This is most unfortunate.
To me, it seems that the majority of your posts revolve around bashing NCARB, the AIA and architects in general.
This forum has been established, and provided, by very generous people that seek to help the Intern Architect complete the ARE. Of which, you are one. Are you not?
This forum has many Architects, which Brudgers is one, that spend much of their personal time to help the interns pass the ARE. They do this because they choose to help. Personally, I am very grateful for their contribution to my passing the ARE. If I could, I would send them all a case of the finest wines to show my appreciation.
This is why the ARE forum exists. To help the interns pass the ARE.
So, either you are either here to help, participate, and perhaps even learn a trick or two about passing the ARE or you are not. The choice is yours.
In conclusion, your antagonistic nature is not welcomed in this forum, nor is it helpful to the interns passing the ARE.
Alomu.
After reviewing your post to this member and regarding Brudgers, I think you owe this new member a large sincere apology.
Brudgers is by far the most abrasive member on this forum. His comments hurt people and and his answers are not always exact or even concise lately, usually only a display of smug slander and Hitler like mad authoritarianism.
Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:04 am by stl-guy
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Coach
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:45 pm |
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stl-guy wrote: After reviewing your post to this member and regarding Brudgers, I think you owe this new member a large sincere apology. I'm sorry, but what is your problem? Did you bpother to read what one fella wrote?
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brudgers
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 09:34 pm |
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Coach wrote: stl-guy wrote: After reviewing your post to this member and regarding Brudgers, I think you owe this new member a large sincere apology. I'm sorry, but what is your problem? Did you bpother to read what one fella wrote?
Can't.
CRI.
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stl-guy
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Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 05:39 am |
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One Fella wrote: King wrote: alomu wrote: One Fella:
After reviewing all your posts to this forum, it appears to me that you are looking to instigate, and not help. This is most unfortunate.
Of course I'd like to instigate change. Thats what real human beings with a heart and soul and mind like to do...make things better for the next generation. Unfortunate for the zombies, yes, they'd rather just remain braindead and stay in their comfortable slave graves.
To me, it seems that the majority of your posts revolve around bashing NCARB, the AIA and architects in general.
AANNDD..your point is? If you want lavish praise and addulation go to their own websites, you'll get plenty of clever,witty, used car salesman marketing tactics there that will make you all warm and fuzzy. If you don't want the truth then just keep ignoring it
This forum has been established, and provided, by very generous people that seek to help the Intern Architect complete the ARE. Of which, you are one. Are you not?
Too many blanket assumptions on your part to even begin a response.
This forum has many Architects, which Brudgers is one, that spend much of their personal time to help the interns pass the ARE. They do this because they choose to help. Personally, I am very grateful for their contribution to my passing the ARE. If I could, I would send them all a case of the finest wines to show my appreciation.
Lets see a copy of "brudgers" license. And if you want to send him a case of wine stop talking about it and send him a private message asking him for his address. This indeed seems like a noble gesture, well done. Oh wait, you are most likely an intern or architect, you most likely can't afford to back up your bluff.
This is why the ARE forum exists. To help the interns pass the ARE.
Really? Then why does the text below the "ENTER the Intern Development Program (IDP) topics say "Post any topics related to IDP." I guess I'm in a different forum than you.
So, either you are either here to help, participate, and perhaps even learn a trick or two about passing the ARE or you are not. The choice is yours. Yes that is why I am here, generally. There was no requirement when I signed up that dictated whether I'd try to get all the zombies to like what I write. By the way, I think the forum is a godsend.
In conclusion, your antagonistic nature is not welcomed in this forum, nor is it helpful to the interns passing the ARE.
Who made you the doorkeeper of the Forum? Believe it or not (because those who explicitly preach tolerance are ironically the very same people who are the least tolerant) Your opinion is accepted and respected wholeheartedly by me. By the way, if the "the interns passing the ARE" are all passing then why are they coming to the forum? Shouldn't you have written, [the interns preparing to take the ARE]? Oh wait, you're probably another zombie, you'll probably be offended by my corrective suggestion. I shouldn't have pointed that out, you might lose your warm and fuzzies.
Alomu.
Good take!
My point is proven yet again. So sad, oh well, back to watching frogs boil...
The only point that I always agree with Bruders with is that I don't spend enough time reviewing enough candidates posts.
The General topics category is a good place to vent and I think usually Okay to do so as long as it does not get too out of hand. NCARB and AIA topics often involve some politics. This is the category where to talk about it if you must, but this is not a political forum.
I am sure most members, including myself would much rather see you posting practices tests that your peers can review or reviewing and helping other members with test issues.
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RK
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 04:38 pm |
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Why is anybody waiting so long (years) to fill out their forms. I submitted once every 6 months in order to avoid any real problems later on.
Proper planning gents. That is all I have to add here.
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RK
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 04:51 pm |
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Coach wrote: stl-guy wrote: After reviewing your post to this member and regarding Brudgers, I think you owe this new member a large sincere apology. I'm sorry, but what is your problem? Did you bpother to read what one fella wrote?
Maybe you should go back and look at the time line on this thread.
In the end though, both have gone over the top. Silence from both parties at this point would be a welcome relief.
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brudgers
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 06:57 pm |
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| Tossing grenades.
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Matt_A
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 02:57 am |
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If you have a supervisor or employer who refuses to sign your legitimate forms, have you considered filing a complaint against them with the state licensing board? I think that would be a reasonable thing to try. If I were them, and I got a letter from the state asking me about it, I'd sign your papers pretty quick.
I think that kind of behavior on the part of an employer is disgusting.
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BetterMousetrap
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 04:02 am |
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| Most states don't mandate that architects or firms participate in IDP or cooperate in signing forms. Firms are only required by law to report dates of employment.
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Matt_A
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 04:04 am |
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| Doesn't mean you can't complain about it.
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Matt_A
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 04:06 am |
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| I mean, it's the freaking state that is requiring IDP. What, do they expect interns to be magicians, conjuring up completed forms out of the atmosphere?
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stl-guy
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 08:48 pm |
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Matt_A wrote: I mean, it's the freaking state that is requiring IDP. What, do they expect interns to be magicians, conjuring up completed forms out of the atmosphere?
Ncarb gives you some alternatives.
First a council record must be established. Then fill out an IDP training unit report to see where you stand. After that, fill out the Employment Verification form. Notice there ate two components. Employer verification and Mentor.
It is possible for a Mentor or Mentors to sign for you and you can then self report (under some conditions) employment verification by means of time sheets, tax records (W-2's), etc.
If you have questions about this, contact NCARB at 202-783-6500. I suggest you begin by speaking to Harry Falconor.
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:33 am |
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Reading all of the posts here in the forum is a bit un-nerving. I have been experiencing much of the same problems as many of the posters here to the forum. If I may wonder outloud for a moment, forgive me:
First, am I to think that for anyone who has experienced first hand the problems of making it thru IDP would not take it upon themselves to make a consorted moral effort to right a serious wrong?
Second, are there previous members, who have now succeeded in passing the ARE, addressing this morally offensive practice of ignoring future candidates?
Third, if you are one of the folks who fought the establishment of this inconsistant and ethically blind morally lacking organization and now makes it a point to hold evening and weekend meetings to help interns, please take my sincere heartfelt thanks.
Fourth, as a furtherance of number 3, please post where you are, and who you are. You probably do what you can without taking a penny for your efforts but donations might be a way for you to champian a grass roots movement to the actual beliefs that were once pardon the expression, holy for the cause of the practice of architecture.
Fifth, Name Names - if you are having a bad time with an architect who is unethical - post his or her name.
Sixth, are we so shallow to let those around us suffer when we say to the general public that "architects are there to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public"?
I make this pledge, If I finish IDP, pass the ARE, become licensed, I will create a grass roots program to assist any and all those interested in completing IDP and passing the ARE.
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justdrawinglines
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 02:07 pm |
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pgharchintern wrote:
Fifth, Name Names - if you are having a bad time with an architect who is unethical - post his or her name.
Fine, if you don't mind the possibility of being sued...
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 02:17 pm |
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| Ah this is true. Being sued for voicing one's opinion concerning the treatment while in the employ of another should be prosecuted to the maximum the law allows which should be public stoning of something of the like. I keep forgetting that we should condone or at least protect those individuals who disregard the ethic code to which they said they would adhere to. Silly me for thinking that we should expose those who violate the Code of ethical behavior. As the Pirates say, the code is merely a guideline that is to be loosely adhered to anyway.
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justdrawinglines
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| Location: | New York USA |
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| Exams Taken: | GS, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Exams Passed: | ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Describes Me: | failure is NOT an option |
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 02:43 pm |
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pgh - you're preaching to the choir with me. Opening yourself up to a lawsuit to expose some scumbag that calls him/herself an architect is just not worth it - unless you have a lot of dough to flush down the toilet. It's your word against theirs and the burden of proof is your responsibility. I've worked for quite a few sh*ts over the years just like everyone else. I believe that they will get their's in the end, and just move on. One thing that I came away with after working for these folks was the determination to never be like that.
There are other ways to deal with a situation like this, and many ways to deal with NCARB. Want an uprising? How about getting your license, infiltrating NCARB, and changing things from the inside? How about getting your license and then being a GOOD boss and mentor for the other poor souls going through this? Want to create a grass roots program? Put your money where your mouth is. I dare you. I'm sure there are lots of us who would join you. But why wait till you maybe finish IDP and maybe pass the ARE? I would think, given your passionate post, that this would be something you would want to do right now.
IDP is a pain in the a**, I think we can all agree on that. But if you actually pay attention to it's ultimate purpose, it can be beneficial. Is it perfect? Hell, no. Is NCARB a pain to deal with? Sometimes. But right now it is what it is, and we have to deal with it the best we can. Between work and study and family, I don't have the energy to spare by being angry and pissed off at former employers and NCARB.
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pgharchintern
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| Location: | Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA |
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