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BJ820
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Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 09:53 pm |
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I just went a free revit seminar. I was intending to just buy only the revit program. However, the sells people were giving me a better price for buying all three programs (revit, adt 2008, acad 2008) Do I really need the other programs (adt2008 and acad 2008) when I already have Acad2002 and I can just slowly transition to revit? Are they just trying to make a sell?
And another question: How many people are using it now and how useful is it really.? How much time do you save?
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ChrisL
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 06:08 am |
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The experience I have has with this program has been horrible. You might want to look at what other companies have to offer-Graphisoft, Bentley, & Chief Architect.
Last edited on Tue May 1st, 2007 06:32 am by ChrisL
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houndjake49
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| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 03:09 pm |
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I completely disagree with ChrisL, but what else is new. Revit is an excellent program to use in the BIM environment.
It automates and coordinates many, if not all of the tasks that AutoCAD straight out of the box cannot.
It is a completely different way of working, though. I've used it, and it makes to reference to layer colors, layer name, anything like that. You are instead building the model versus drawing pictures of it.
Plus, I'm not sure what type of projects you work on, but many of the state and local governments in our area are making Revit a requirement for project submittals.
Salesman are probably just trying to package the whole thing together, to save a few bucks. Plus, I'm pretty sure Autodesk stopped supporting ACAD 2002 a while back, so if you did need some input regarding working between ACAD and Revit iut might be a little tricky.
HJ49
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ChrisL
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 04:18 pm |
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I am a firm believer in BIM, however the hodgepodge Autodesk has thrown together to frame their supposed BIM solution is utterly pathetic. Every other provider out there has a seamless functional solution - it does not matter who it is. The reason they try to sell you base AutoCAD and ADT along with Revit is because Revit totally chokes on detailing-everyone knows this is the case. Also there is the fact that of all the providers out there, the only bully is Autodesk. Everyone else, be it Bentley, Graphisoft, or Chief is all willing to work with architects. All Autodesk wants to do is cram garbage down our throats. There are plenty of drones out there who now only goose step behind Carol Bartz in this profession, and they have forgotten that they majored in architecture and not AutoCAD. I think Bill Gates' architect has made this best assessment of Autodesk I have heard so far.
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transpace
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 05:49 pm |
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| I agree with Chris, Autodesk products might be good but non of them follow the way architects think or work. take example of sketchup they knew exactly what architects need and designed a product for them even if the product is not powerful but still it follows the way we think
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archjake
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| Location: | Architect - Tucson, Arizona |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 07:16 pm |
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boy! all of these opinions are all over the place. I've used Revit for 5 years now and will not go back to any type of vanilla cad or even cad based BIM product. Its a great program for a number of reasons. It can detail and one can create beautiful details and sets of drawings. I know. I'm very paticular about the sets of drawings that are produced under my supervision. Revit is also one of the reasons I was licensed 4 years out of college. The designer can think about the design and refine it in 3D quite easily. Schedules and families help with code issues as well.
Revit does have its cons. I for one can not stand the site tools, but I think they will fix this one of these days. I keep putting in a service request each time I use them and get frustrated on a project.
Revit did not start as an autodesk product. It was designed for architects by architects and it shows in how the model is put together. Unlike vanilla cad and sketchup Revit knows what a wall is. It knows what most everything is. Walls, windows, ceilings, floors, beams, etc. and they act like what they are.
To each their own. Download the programs you're interested in and give them a try. Most sofware companies have some sort of trial.
Revit has been a great product for my career.
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archjake
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 07:16 pm |
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| oops, dbl post. Last edited on Tue May 1st, 2007 07:17 pm by archjake
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BJ820
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 01:21 am |
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Thank you everyone for your responses. When I first started using autocad 14 I though it was an excellent tool for drafting work and creating and coordinating CD's. Prior to this, I was familiar with a few 3-D modeling programs including archicad on macintoshes. I thought Archicad was an okay design tool, albiet clumbsy and not great at developing CD's. Autocad fast became the industry standard when I first started working which is over 10 years ago. Being an intern at the time, it's hard to go against the grain and since most offices just started using the program, I help the autocad startup standards.
Autocad is the hardest program i have ever learned and I realize most people especially in large offices are not adept in using it. I see how inefficiently the offices (even the smaller ones) are run. I must say the speed is not in drawing the lines. Rather it's in the file management and layer manangement. Drawings can quickly become a confusing mess and fustrate manageers who arnt aways on the program using it and understanding the neuances of it.
I'm pretty good with the program but still find ways to speed up production. Being familiar w/ 3d modeling from past programs, I am wary of this new Revit. Making changes to my design is time consuming. I've been patiently waiting for a new and improved method of design and the abilty to produce CD quickley w/ reduction time in tedious coordination.
I 'm hopeing this new Revit program is it. I dont see many offices changing to macintoshes or seeing much of any other programs.
Should I not at least upgrade to a new AutoCad 2008 to keep myself updated?
Also, no one seems to have mention the Archicad program yet.
Last edited on Wed May 2nd, 2007 01:25 am by BJ820
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swedishduck
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 03:08 am |
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Revit is not a 3D-modeler or a 2D-drafter in the true sense of either term. You basically "build" your model as you would build your building. Instead of solid geometry (extrusions, lofts, sweeps, revolves, etc.), you use components (walls, windows, floors) that seamlessly, more or less, go together to get your project.
That being said, Revit is a great tool for developing projects. Its much more advanced than some other BIM softwares (and much easier to get into as well), and it will save you loads of time over Autocad. As archjake said, Revit did not start out as an Autodesk product, and it does not feel like an autodesk product.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone that says their software is holding them back from designing doesn't understand how to use their software.
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m_kim
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 07:15 am |
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Getting back to the point. Get the upgrades to the Revit Series 2008. It comes with both Autocad 2008 and Revit 2008. My advice is to get subscription which costs about 800/year. It is definitely worth the price if you are going to Revit. Call several dealers for quotes. When I looked into the pricing, it was all over the place. The difference between highest bidder to the lowest ranged 2k.
BTW, you will need Autocad, since most other professionals are not using Revit.
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Meigs9
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| Location: | ARCHITECT, LEED, Virginia USA |
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 06:07 pm |
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m_kim wrote: Getting back to the point. Get the upgrades to the Revit Series 2008. It comes with both Autocad 2008 and Revit 2008. My advice is to get subscription which costs about 800/year. It is definitely worth the price if you are going to Revit. Call several dealers for quotes. When I looked into the pricing, it was all over the place. The difference between highest bidder to the lowest ranged 2k.
BTW, you will need Autocad, since most other professionals are not using Revit.
I would advise this also. We just made the switch to Revit and by keeping AutoCAD in the office it has made the transition easier. There is no need to absolutely do your first project entirely in Revit while people are still getting the hang of it. We see this as an easier transition. Unless you are using the 3D capabilities in ADT, getting ADT 2008 and AutoCAD 2008 is redundant. There is no need to have both programs in addition to Revit. You can draw in 2D in ADT, so I don't see why the retailer would even offer you AutoCAD in addition to ADT. That is a complete scam. When I price all this for my firm back in December, the better deal was the Revit Series package that m_kim suggested. It all really depends on whether you still need the 3D capabilties of ADT during your transition.
Also, keep in mind that Revit can be difficult to manipulate if you are working with existing buildings. You can manipulate the model with different phases but it is cumbersome and something the designers of Revit need to work on in my opinion. My advice is to make sure your first project you draw in Revit is all new construction.
~m
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transpace
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 09:14 am |
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| Revit is mainly for instant revise it is not a design tool by any means . as far as production I think it is much better than AutoCAD
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swedishduck
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 02:49 pm |
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transpace wrote:
Revit is mainly for instant revise it is not a design tool by any means . as far as production I think it is much better than AutoCAD
On the contrary, you can easily design in Revit making solid extrusions, sweeps, etc. to create the form of your building and then very quickly generate the building elements to follow your form. The only thing it can't do to this end is your hyper-curvy lofted nurbs surfaces. You can, of course, generate those in something else such as rhino and import it in, and, again, use that to quickly generate walls, curtain walls, whatever you want.
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pirit4
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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I am a Revit specialist. I am certified autodesk instructor in Revit platforms. My opinion is the following.
If you are willing to spend the money on Revit. It is worth getting. Its virtually limitles as far as what shapes you can create on it. This is where the American market is going. I work for a software reseller and I train some of the best companies here in Chicago in the use of the software and they are all going to Revit. If you go to AUGI.com user group, there is a wealth of info. and I think the stats are something like 15% of Arch. companies right now, I can't remember where I read it, so take it with a grain of salt. the companies that have gone to it, never want to look at AutoCAD again because they like it so much.
If you want to do Residential, I heard that chief architect is a good choice b/c it can do a lot of stud work type of design and costing. I have not used this but its what I heard from users.
"Archi-cad", I have not used . But I have tried using it and it is not nearly as parametric and user-friendly as Revit. Quite a few Mac users and Europeans are using it. Its a lot cheaper than Revit and really tries to compete with it.
I don't know anybody that uses the Bentley BIM platform and I don't know anything about it, so can't really comment on it.
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pjf
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 11:41 pm |
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transpace wrote: Revit is mainly for instant revise it is not a design tool by any means . as far as production I think it is much better than AutoCAD
I thought design comes from imagination and refinements. since when did a tool become more a less of a design tool? is a pencil a design tool?
personally, no matter how lofty a design is, if it not built or realized it is simply untested pictures. does it work? does it engage the users? does it test the limits of technology? does it stand the test of time? none of if can be answered via paper architecture.
the advantage of revit is the ability to produce buildible documents from the start, or atleast bidable. no sketchup/max/solidworks/formz translation nightmare to cad when going into or during DD or CD phase. it allows you to design on the fly w/o reexporting, layers updates, or reassess any conflicts that might have been triggered by design changes, if not constantly.
a design tool is only as good as the designer. And if you suck at basketball, don't blame the basket.
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pirit4
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 02:11 am |
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| I cannot agree more with the above. The sucky designers have sucky Revit models. If you can sketch something cool, your building will be cool. Revit is just a tool to achieve what design you already have in mind.
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LIK
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 11:07 pm |
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pjf wrote: transpace wrote: Revit is mainly for instant revise it is not a design tool by any means . as far as production I think it is much better than AutoCAD
a design tool is only as good as the designer. And if you suck at basketball, don't blame the basket.
LOL
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