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King
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 05:49 pm |
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| Can anyone help? Thx!
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AbracaPocus
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:24 pm |
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Depends on lots of factors: local building codes, seismic coefficients, details of wall's construction and materials, etc.
You should absolutely consult an engineer familiar with your locale.
But very generally:
18 times the nominal width of the wall is generally the limit for a cmu cavity wall unbraced laterally.
With steel reinforcing an unbraced cmu wall could go as high as 35' to 40'.
If the wall is braced laterally then it could certainly go considerably higher...
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King
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:31 pm |
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| thx!
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niro
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:40 pm |
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| can 4" cmu be reinforced?
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AbracaPocus
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:29 pm |
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No, sorry, I missed the 4" part in the title.
4" can't be reinforced - it's usually used as a veneer.
A freestanding 4" wall would be limited to about 6' high - and probably would be a bad idea at that.
But a braced 4" wall could conceivably go a lot higher...
You need an engineer!
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brudgers
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:39 pm |
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ACI 530-02/ASCE 5-02/TMS 402-02:
TABLE 5.5.1
NON-BEARING INTERIOR WALLS: MAXIMUM l/t = 36
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AbracaPocus
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:42 pm |
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| Yeah, but doesn't that assume some lateral support? Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:48 pm by AbracaPocus
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King
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:42 pm |
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brudgers wrote: ACI 530-02/ASCE 5-02/TMS 402-02:
TABLE 5.5.1
NON-BEARING INTERIOR WALLS: MAXIMUM l/t = 36
Wow, thx Brudgers...
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King
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:45 pm |
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AbracaPocus wrote: No, sorry, I missed the 4" part in the title.
4" can't be reinforced - it's usually used as a veneer.
A freestanding 4" wall would be limited to about 6' high - and probably would be a bad idea at that.
But a braced 4" wall could conceivably go a lot higher...
You need an engineer!
Sorry, I don't understand.
Why can't 4" CMU be reinforced? I thought as long as it is hollow, you can reinforce it, right?
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brudgers
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 08:58 pm |
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AbracaPocus wrote: Yeah, but doesn't that assume some lateral support?
See 5.5.1 and 5.5.3
See also the empirical design limitations in 5.1.2.
Use of a structural engineer is my recommendation for anyone uncomfortable with masonry design.
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niro
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 11:27 pm |
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King wrote: AbracaPocus wrote: No, sorry, I missed the 4" part in the title.
4" can't be reinforced - it's usually used as a veneer.
A freestanding 4" wall would be limited to about 6' high - and probably would be a bad idea at that.
But a braced 4" wall could conceivably go a lot higher...
You need an engineer!
Sorry, I don't understand.
Why can't 4" CMU be reinforced? I thought as long as it is hollow, you can reinforce it, right?
Probably cause it is impossible to keep the bars dead center in the hollow core.
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ctown
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 01:04 am |
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one story
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alomu
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 01:42 am |
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Wow. After passing all the ARE exams, you post this rookie question. I feel sad for you not having the skills to solve the issue you posted.
But hey, you passed the exams, right?
Architect, right?
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King
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 02:10 am |
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alomu wrote: Wow. After passing all the ARE exams, you post this rookie question. I feel sad for you not having the skills to solve the issue you posted.
But hey, you passed the exams, right?
Architect, right?
I feel sad for u. Are licensed? Are u jealous I have something you don't have?Last edited on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 02:13 am by King
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alomu
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 03:11 am |
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King wrote: alomu wrote: Wow. After passing all the ARE exams, you post this rookie question. I feel sad for you not having the skills to solve the issue you posted.
But hey, you passed the exams, right?
Architect, right?
I feel sad for u. Are licensed? Are u jealous I have something you don't have?
Any 3rd yr kid on my team would never ask the rookie question you have. They have pride in what they do. They know how to research.
I guess, by your reply, it simply confirms my suspicion that passing the ARE will not promote real architect skills. Passing the ARE means exactly that, passed the ARE.
Congrats. for you for passing the ARE.
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jmcarr
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 03:22 am |
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alomu wrote:
King wrote: alomu wrote: Wow. After passing all the ARE exams, you post this rookie question. I feel sad for you not having the skills to solve the issue you posted.
But hey, you passed the exams, right?
Architect, right?
I feel sad for u. Are licensed? Are u jealous I have something you don't have?
Any 3rd yr kid on my team would never ask the rookie question you have. They have pride in what they do. They know how to research.
I guess, by your reply, it simply confirms my suspicion that passing the ARE will not promote real architect skills. Passing the ARE means exactly that, passed the ARE.
Congrats. for you for passing the ARE.
Hey Captain Bring-Down, what's with the [paint] chip on your shoulder?
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King
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 03:34 am |
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alomu wrote: Any 3rd yr kid on my team would never ask the rookie question you have. They have pride in what they do. They know how to research. Posting question on AREFORUM is the most effective way to get your answer. I asked the same question to my engineer friend, and he does not know. I don't feel stupid asking this question.
It is ok not knowing something.
It is not ok to not ask.
You are probably one of those arrogant Architects pretend to know everything. I guess, by your reply, it simply confirms my suspicion that passing the ARE will not promote real architect skills. Passing the ARE means exactly that, passed the ARE. I never said passing ARE make me a better Arch. Architecture is a life time learning process. Congrats. for you for passing the ARE.
I feel bad being your spouse (if you have any)
I feel bad being your kid (if you have any),
I feel bad being your friends (if you have any),
I feel bad being your subordinate (if you have any),
I feel good being your boss 'cause it sure feels good kicking your ass around...
Have a sweet dream.
Last edited on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 03:29 pm by King
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King
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 04:04 am |
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jmcarr wrote: Hey Captain Bring-Down, what's with the [paint] chip on your shoulder?
Thanks!
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#9
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 05:15 am |
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Hey everyone, lighten up! Stop all this bickering. Don't you know it's an election year? Seriously, what are all the details surrounding the wall? How long is it? How tall are you wanting it to be? Are there any openings in it? What is it resting on? Where is it (siesmic zone)?The problem is that if you want to be comfortable with an answer you get off the forum, you need to provide all the details. Even then, in my opinion, you probably want to do your own math that makes you comfortable and interpolate from there. I love the forum for all the great discussions but I doubt it would help me out too much in court when the wall falls over. If it were me, and since I have an allergic reaction to most things math, I would give a quick call to an engineer I have a good working relationship with. I can't imagine that breaking the bank if at all for such a question.
What do you mean your engineer friend doesn't know? I take it he's not a structural?
There are no stupid questions (well, maybe a few). Passing the ARE is just jumping through another hoop like school to give you that peice of paper, a raise, and a sense of pride and accomplishment that you can do anything you set your mind to (even a little math). It has very little to do with being a good architect any more than passing the bar makes you a good ambulance chaser.
Good Luck.
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King
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 05:31 am |
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#9 wrote: What do you mean your engineer friend doesn't know? I take it he's not a structural? He is civil engineer, not licensed though. He is a college buddy of mine, changed major from Arch to Civil Eng after freshman year. He does high rise, and apparently 30-40 story high buildings don't use 4" non-bearing CMU.
Last edited on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 05:46 am by King
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zedcorrado
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 12:49 pm |
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alomu wrote:
Any 3rd yr kid on my team would never ask the rookie question you have. They have pride in what they do. They know how to research.
I guess, by your reply, it simply confirms my suspicion that passing the ARE will not promote real architect skills. Passing the ARE means exactly that, passed the ARE.
Congrats. for you for passing the ARE.
So you rather have your team spend an hour researching what you call a rookie question rather than ask someone who could point them in the right direction? Excellent resource management. If you don't want to answer the question, there is a button at the top-left of your browser labeled "Back"...use it.Last edited on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 12:50 pm by zedcorrado
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Kellhammer
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 01:37 pm |
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| I see nothing wrong asking any question. I've spent years working with wood frame. Get me in front of a masonry structure and I stop being confident. But, I understand I need to make sure what I am building will work. Not doing that is the real problem. Or maybe I just ask a question here because I 'm curious what others will say
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brudgers
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 02:46 pm |
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alomu wrote: Any 3rd yr kid on my team would never ask the rookie question you have. They have pride in what they do. They know how to research.
I guess, by your reply, it simply confirms my suspicion that passing the ARE will not promote real architect skills. Passing the ARE means exactly that, passed the ARE.
Congrats. for you for passing the ARE.
That kind of "pride in what they do" is why architects are often seen as complete idiots by the rest of the building trades.
Blind self-sufficiency is no substitute for expertise.
Particularly when it comes to management principles.
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jmcarr
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 02:54 pm |
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brudgers wrote: alomu wrote: Any 3rd yr kid on my team would never ask the rookie question you have. They have pride in what they do. They know how to research.
I guess, by your reply, it simply confirms my suspicion that passing the ARE will not promote real architect skills. Passing the ARE means exactly that, passed the ARE.
Congrats. for you for passing the ARE.
That kind of "pride in what they do" is why architects are often seen as complete idiots by the rest of the building trades.
Blind self-sufficiency is no substitute for expertise.
Particularly when it comes to management principles.
I agree. It's much better to ask questions, as King did, and do research, then it is to assume we know everything. Perhaps Alomu's conflagration against King carried over from a different post.
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shinto909
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 04:14 pm |
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niro wrote: King wrote: AbracaPocus wrote: No, sorry, I missed the 4" part in the title.
4" can't be reinforced - it's usually used as a veneer.
A freestanding 4" wall would be limited to about 6' high - and probably would be a bad idea at that.
But a braced 4" wall could conceivably go a lot higher...
You need an engineer!
Sorry, I don't understand.
Why can't 4" CMU be reinforced? I thought as long as it is hollow, you can reinforce it, right?
Probably cause it is impossible to keep the bars dead center in the hollow core.
of course you can reinforce 4" cmu, and they even make wire fasteners to hold the vertical bars in place while you grout
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___Key
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Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 02:11 am |
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What does "CMU" mean?
Nah, just kidding. It's "Could Mean Ugly", right? I don't know why you'd want to reinforce ugly though.
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King
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Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 04:31 am |
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___Key wrote: What does "CMU" mean?
Or more appropriately "Cold Mean Ugly".
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