Is load over opening supported by masonry arch? - Architects Forum - General Topics

Not logged in - Login | Register

Read about Exam Security

ARE Forum > General Topics > Architects Forum > Is load over opening supported by masonry arch?

Is load over opening supported by masonry arch?

Moderated by: areforum

New Topic

Author

Post

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:07 pm

Quote

Is full load over the opening releived by a masonry arch?

Thank you!

Last edited on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:13 pm by alinaski

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:04 pm

Quote

Here is image:

Attachment: 1633_001.pdf (Downloaded 171 times)

InTheDark
Member

Joined:	Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location:
Posts:	44
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:14 pm

Quote

There's a steel beam in the section, with an attached iron angle supporting the brick, right?
It's a stiffened jack arch - the brick arch alone is not supporting the full load.

Last edited on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:33 pm by InTheDark

Gdrinkh2o
Member

Joined:	Tue Sep 25th, 2007
Location:	NY
Posts:	148
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:	Done!
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:13 pm

Quote

dont see how the brick could support the load above based on those images. I agree with inthedark, the steel is intended to be the lintel.

InTheDark
Member

Joined:	Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location:
Posts:	44
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:24 pm

Quote

Well you can have a jack arch made of masonry units alone (brick or stone) - but the units need to be wedged AND they need to bear on significant masonry masses (AT) either side. Most jack arches in relatively contemporary brick buildings are not truly load bearing.

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:41 pm

Quote

I ask this question because I replace the lintel (angle above the window not I beam).

And lintel (this angle) is not required to be fire protected if :

or full load is relieved by masonry arch (?)

or lintel supports just outer face of masonry - i think it is my case.

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:41 pm

Quote

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:48 pm

Quote

Thank you very much!

Gdrinkh2o
Member

Joined:	Tue Sep 25th, 2007
Location:	NY
Posts:	148
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:	Done!
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 08:02 pm

Quote

InTheDark wrote: Well you can have a jack arch made of masonry units alone (brick or stone) - but the units need to be wedged AND they need to bear on significant masonry masses (AT) either side. Most jack arches in relatively contemporary brick buildings are not truly load bearing.
I understand how the arch is supposed to work, my comment was in reference to the fact that as drawn there didnt appear to be enough bearing to support any load.

Kellhammer
Member

Joined:	Wed Apr 7th, 2004
Location:	Registered Architect, Pennsylvania USA
Posts:	522
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 08:53 pm

Quote

It looks like the I - beam is supporting the wall above and floor. The outside venneer is being carried on a angle that is down and closer to the outside face. A flat arch could work without the angle. The original design and or as-built construction might have had both in place for some reason that is not apparent the little bit of info you have provided. Or the designer may not had trusted the masonry arch as self- supporting. Could spectulate for days. Bottom line, an independant veneer could be supported by the flat masonry arch.

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 10:52 pm

Quote

Thank you.

King
Member

Joined:	Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	643
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:	AIA
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 09:33 pm

Quote

Funcationally I don't think this should be considered as Arch even though it is called "Flat Arch".

I think I see a steel angle bolted to the I-beam. The picture is too small to tell.

Attached Image (viewed 166 times):

Last edited on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 09:42 pm by King

Coach
Member

Joined:	Tue Mar 4th, 2008
Location:	USA
Posts:	5076
Exams Taken:
Exams Passed:
Describes Me:	Architect
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 09:55 pm

Quote

I agree. That's not an arch, it's a lintel with a brick veneer.

Spellcaster
Architect

Joined:	Thu Apr 15th, 2004
Location:	ARCHITECT, LEED AP, USA
Posts:	905
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 09:57 pm

Quote

Yes, there is an angle - that's what the original poster said he is concerned with, because he wants to replace it without fire protecting it.

The drawing is a textbook example of a "stiffened jack arch", which isn't really a true arch, that's correct, but nonetheless that's the terminology.

I think the original poster has it correct that since the applicable code is telling him he doesn't need to fire protect that angle if it's only supporting the outer brick wythe he should be ok with replacing it as is.

Last edited on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 09:57 pm by Spellcaster

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 03:13 am

Quote

Thank you!

second life
Member

Joined:	Sat Jan 6th, 2007
Location:	ARCHITECT, LEED AP, New York USA
Posts:	340
Exams Taken:
Exams Passed:
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Sat Oct 18th, 2008 08:51 pm

Quote

FYI
This flat arch would need a key stone in the middle if it was to function as a load bearing arch.

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Sun Oct 19th, 2008 03:59 am

Quote

Thank you!

Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Member

Joined:	Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location:	A-R-C-H-I-T-E-C-T, Illinois USA
Posts:	577
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 03:43 am

Quote

N/M

Last edited on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 03:44 am by Unsportsmanlike Conduct

Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Member

Joined:	Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location:	A-R-C-H-I-T-E-C-T, Illinois USA
Posts:	577
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 03:43 am

Quote

alinaski wrote: I ask this question because I replace the lintel (angle above the window not I beam).

And lintel (this angle) is not required to be fire protected if :

or full load is relieved by masonry arch (?)

or lintel supports just outer face of masonry - i think it is my case.

Paint the lintel with intumescent paint and be done with it....

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 02:16 pm

Quote

Yes, You are right. I am trying to do paint in most cases!

second life
Member

Joined:	Sat Jan 6th, 2007
Location:	ARCHITECT, LEED AP, New York USA
Posts:	340
Exams Taken:
Exams Passed:
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Sat Oct 25th, 2008 06:03 pm

Quote

Unsportsmanlike Conduct wrote: alinaski wrote: I ask this question because I replace the lintel (angle above the window not I beam).

And lintel (this angle) is not required to be fire protected if :

or full load is relieved by masonry arch (?)

or lintel supports just outer face of masonry - i think it is my case.

Paint the lintel with intumescent paint and be done with it....
i do lintels like this all the time. i've never done fire protection on any of them, nor have i ever heard anyone requesting it.

Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Member

Joined:	Sat Feb 25th, 2006
Location:	A-R-C-H-I-T-E-C-T, Illinois USA
Posts:	577
Exams Taken:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Sun Oct 26th, 2008 05:15 pm

Quote

It depends on the code, Chicago requires steel lintels over 5' to be protected.

alinaski
Member

Joined:	Sat Sep 17th, 2005
Location:	NYC, New York USA
Posts:	181
Exams Taken:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Exams Passed:	GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT
Describes Me:
Status:	Offline
Mana:

Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:15 pm

Quote

Thank you!

Current time is 12:44 pm

Go to main Forum Board

Any comments? please contact us at
click here

RULES AND DISCLAIMER