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TAW
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| Joined: | Fri Oct 10th, 2008 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 06:25 am |
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I have a small firm, currently we don't have a full size plotter, we use 11x17 for review and send out for production of final documents.
I am just wondering if this is fairly typical, what are your experiences? Is it possible for this system to work successfully? While employed by others we always had plotters.
Also, any suggestions on where to look for inexpensive plotters (other than ebay)?
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Coach
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 5812 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 07:57 am |
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| Check out OCE or Kip leases.
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golfernut78
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| Joined: | Fri Jul 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Euless, Texas |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Exams Taken: | PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Exams Passed: | PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Describes Me: | licensed architect - texas |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 06:27 pm |
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we have a plotter in our office, but its for in-house review and quick small plot jobs. all of our construction documents are sent out to a local printer to be printed. our printer is a HP DesignJet 1050c. its a solid printer for what we use and can be found between $4000 and $6000.
you can also look at leasing. we lease our copier and they were offering us a great deal on a OCE system, but we didn't go for it. we would have saved on printing costs, but we would have spent more time on labor with someone binding drawings and scanning drawings.
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brudgers
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | The Moment |
| Posts: | 7639 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 08:23 pm |
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TAW wrote: I have a small firm, currently we don't have a full size plotter, we use 11x17 for review and send out for production of final documents.
I am just wondering if this is fairly typical, what are your experiences? Is it possible for this system to work successfully? While employed by others we always had plotters.
Also, any suggestions on where to look for inexpensive plotters (other than ebay)?
If you have a good print shop available, you can use them for full size check plots.
But having a machine in house is pretty important in my opinion.
Refurbished machines are available on the web.
The big issues are with Vista compatiblity with older models.
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unique1
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| Joined: | Mon May 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Little Rock, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 109 |
| Exams Taken: | GS, LF, BD/MM, CD | | Exams Passed: | LF, BD/MM, CD | | Describes Me: | Waited too long |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 09:34 pm |
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I used to have a plotter in the office, but got rid of it since it didn't run correctly with the devil, oops I mean vista. I now have two printers that I do most of my check sets on, and any small (up to 13x19) color prints. I've found that I can read most prints at 11x17, and printed right it can be scaled at 1/8".
I send all work out to a printer because it is easier to keep up with the cost. I can invoice the client for the soft costs and if they ever question, which none have, I have detailed invoices I can show them. I found that having a plotter in house was an easy way to loose money if you don't accurately keep track of what is printed off.
That's not to say I won't get one for the office in the future, but that will probably be after I upgrade all our computers to Mac. I will probably buy or lease a Kip. You can get it with a full size color scanner, single or multiprint that is very fast with crisp lines.
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Spellcaster
Architect
| Joined: | Thu Apr 15th, 2004 |
| Location: | ARCHITECT, LEED AP, USA |
| Posts: | 959 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 11:44 pm |
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For many years I didn't have a plotter in my office. I had an inkjet printer that would handle 12x18 paper and did most of my check plots at half size.
That worked fine then for two reasons: 1. I and staff had young enough eyes to read everything at half size; 2. we were nearly next door to our reprographics place.
Neither of those is the case anymore. For awhile we tried leasing a plotter from a reprographics company. The big plusses of that were that maintenance was included in the contract and only a phone call away, and we always had a fairly new model plotter that cooperated smoothly with our operating system and software. But the downside was that we had to print a minimum amount each month or we were in violation of the contract and risked having the plotter taken away (and for some reason we weren't allowed to just pay the same amount as if we'd plotted the minimum - we actually had to plot the minimum!)
Eventually we broke down and bought a plotter. We bought it through an ad on the local AIA's site, from a firm that was upgrading.
I've also seen cheap plotters advertised by reprographics companies, graphic design firms, etc.
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ironwarrior
Architect
| Joined: | Thu May 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Architect, LEED AP, Anime Freak, West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Exams Taken: | PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Exams Passed: | PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Describes Me: | Overall Anime-nutcase with blue-hair and full-upper body tribal tattoo |
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 12:46 pm |
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I'm a HP person when it comes to plotters. We have a 1055CM that cost about $12,000 6 years ago. You can get a used one for about $4000-5000.
When using plain bond paper and set on Draft Mode, it can shuck out a 24"x36" sheet in about 30-40 seconds, and the quality is EXCELLENT. It get even better in Normal and Enhanced Mode
MAJOR CAVEAT: At this point, I haven't found any Vista x64 drivers for the old 1055CM and have to plot through my server, which runs XP (a self-hacked up version that's better than Win Server 2003--no reinstall in over 3 years).
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brudgers
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 1st, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 02:22 pm |
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The 1000 series vista x64 drivers are available at hp http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodNameId=33712&prodTypeId=18972&prodSeriesId=24023&swLang=8&taskId=135&swEnvOID=2100
They came out over the summer.
I have a rebuilt 755cm which is reasonably fast and cheap.
The 1050's are nice machines but for me they weren't twice as nice.
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ironwarrior
Architect
| Joined: | Thu May 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Architect, LEED AP, Anime Freak, West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Exams Taken: | PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Exams Passed: | PD, GS, LF, ME, BD/MM, CD, SP, BP, BT | | Describes Me: | Overall Anime-nutcase with blue-hair and full-upper body tribal tattoo |
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 09:39 pm |
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Brudgers, I'm ready to swap spit! THANK YOU for the update!
Lo and behold, the last time I checked on HP's site was about June--no drivers. When I talked to an HP rep in the Spring, he said they weren't going to code a Vista x64 driver for this plotter.
Loaded driver, and it worked fine!
BTW, before the 1055CM, we had 755--good plotter.
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unique1
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| Joined: | Mon May 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Little Rock, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 109 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 09:44 pm |
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| Thanks for the post on the drivers. I have an old 755cm in storage. I may have to break that out and load the new driver for it. See if it still works. I agree with Ironwarrior (new avatar again) the 755cm was/is a great plotter. Before that I have a hp600. It was pretty good, but really slow and only b/w.
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architect54
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | New York, New York USA |
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 11:09 pm |
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Guys (and Gals), Canon makes plotters now too. ImagePROGRAF. I have no idea how their plotters work with CAD and what other software (operating systems) you may use. http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=170
I think these can be leased as well through vendors, like HP machines.Last edited on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 11:13 pm by architect54
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stl-guy
Architect
| Joined: | Mon Jan 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | St. Louis, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 3587 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 02:07 am |
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TAW wrote: I have a small firm, currently we don't have a full size plotter, we use 11x17 for review and send out for production of final documents.
I am just wondering if this is fairly typical, what are your experiences? Is it possible for this system to work successfully? While employed by others we always had plotters.
Also, any suggestions on where to look for inexpensive plotters (other than ebay)?
It just so happens that I have a Xerox 8850 large format plotter that we are about to almost give away. Purchase price was about $35,000.
This is not a new machine but still works well.
Maintenance and toner is expensive. Shipping to you might not be practical. This is a big machine. It probably weighs 800 lbs or more.
We just retired a Xerox 6050 and bought four new 6050a models.
Let me know if you are interested.
Otherwise, maybe consider leasing a larger plotter.
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brudgers
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 03:14 pm |
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unique1 wrote: Thanks for the post on the drivers. I have an old 755cm in storage. I may have to break that out and load the new driver for it. No vista drivers for the 700 series. There's a third party solution for Vista 32bit... http://www.winline.com/ See if it still works. I agree with Ironwarrior (new avatar again) the 755cm was/is a great plotter. Before that I have a hp600. It was pretty good, but really slow and only b/w.
The 600 was slow and expensive to run because it used the same print heads as the old DESKjet 500 series ... I had a 550c quiet but brutally slow.
The 650c used the large cartridge similar to the 750's and was much faster. That was also a good machine.
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unique1
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| Joined: | Mon May 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Little Rock, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 109 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 05:31 pm |
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| Thanks brudgers. I will try that.
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wograr
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 21st, 2005 |
| Location: | Boston, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 407 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:56 pm |
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architect54 wrote: Guys (and Gals), Canon makes plotters now too. ImagePROGRAF. I have no idea how their plotters work with CAD and what other software (operating systems) you may use. http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=170
I think these can be leased as well through vendors, like HP machines.
I have never used any of the Prograf plotters....but their reviews have been excellent and they are much cheaper than comparable HPs.
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Kellhammer
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| Joined: | Wed Apr 7th, 2004 |
| Location: | Registered Architect, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 522 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 01:20 am |
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I have a HP 330 design jet. It's a workhorse. Not a single problem in ten years Although it may to prehistoric for some. The 450 designjet is basically a improved version with more bells and whistles. They can be found for as little as 300 bucks. Even 10 year old 750 designjets are on ebay for 500
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brudgers
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Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 02:29 pm |
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Kellhammer wrote: I have a HP 330 design jet. It's a workhorse. Not a single problem in ten years Although it may to prehistoric for some. The 450 designjet is basically a improved version with more bells and whistles. They can be found for as little as 300 bucks. Even 10 year old 750 designjets are on ebay for 500
I had a 350c...with rollfeed and legs.
A great machine but the manual cutter was a bit tiresome during crunchtime.
When it fritzed, I just started using the downtown repo shop. Cheaper, faster, and reimbursable.
Where I am now, there's only one repro company, they're not particularly convenient and stuff doesn't get done on time or right with regularity.
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ShudBDrwg
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| Joined: | Mon Aug 18th, 2008 |
| Location: | Schaumburg, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 146 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 04:26 pm |
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| Networked HP 1055CM been a work horse. Bought in new for about 11, grand, 10 years ago . . . been a PERFECT machine.
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Anxious
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
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Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 11:24 pm |
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In my opinion, you need to have a plotter of your own. Drawing isn't that tough, but printing is, and printing is what your clients and the jurisdictions see. Variations between what you see on a 11x17 and what you see on a 24x36 is the difference between a clean set, and minor errors that eat you alive.
Schlepping down to the repro service takes time that is difficult to justify at billing rates. On the other hand, making plots for more than review is a poor use of time. If you wanted to be a working printshop guy, this is probably the wriong forum for you.
Take the time to figure out what printing costs, what schlepping around costs, and what it is worth to you to put out a better product. The plotter and critical review probably wins every time.
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NewSchool
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 21st, 2005 |
| Location: | Architect, Nebraska USA |
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Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 10:35 pm |
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Lease rates for a nice OCE with large format scanner/copier = $450 per month.
When something goes wrong, the dealer fixes the problem quickly.
Last edited on Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 10:36 pm by NewSchool
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Dragosd4
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| Joined: | Sat Nov 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Chicago, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 19 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 2nd, 2008 08:25 pm |
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| we have a HP DesignJet 3500CP, it works, extra ink and paper. first $1500 or best offer takes it, you must pick it up, chicago suburbs.630.544.5201 x215 Last edited on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 08:42 pm by Dragosd4
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error404
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| Joined: | Wed Sep 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | A-R-C-H-I-T-E-C-T, USA |
| Posts: | 136 |
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 08:34 pm |
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We use a local printer for all our work... the delivery boy takes about 5 to 10min from the time we send the files. We also bill the client separately for the prints.
Works pretty good IMO
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