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sixofnine
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Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 08:27 pm |
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Well, the layoff blues have bit me. And given the current state of economics, I am wondering what people think. I plan on posting a question or two here as I think of them, so, check back when you can to see if I have any new ones to address. For what it is worth, it has been four years since I was looking for that next career opportunity.
Question #1: After sending a cover letter and resume via email, how long should you wait to call and follow up on it? In today's instant society, and the pressing desire to get back to business, I am thinking it is short. But, then I think, "Don't appear desperate!", or perhaps the person you emailed is out of town, and may not see the message for a day or two. Your thoughts?
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Spellcaster
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Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 09:07 pm |
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| 8 to 10 business days works pretty well. You can state in your cover letter that you'll call to follow up "next week".
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brudgers
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Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 09:26 pm |
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I wouldn't bother sending a resume by unsolicited email.
Email from someone you don't know is too easy to delete or ignore.
Then again, I'm a bit of a luddite.
In my opinion, snail mail is worth the money just to make sure there's a hard copy to put in the file.
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NewSchool
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Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 10:17 pm |
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I never waited more than two weeks. After that much time has passed, your resume has found it's way to the bottom of the pile... or trash can.
I agree that you should indicate when they should expect a call from you. And when you make that call and they put you off, suggest a time when you will call back next.
Don't appear desperate but determined.
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rudoneyet
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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Brudgers is right. Invest in snail mail or hand deliver it.
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Rather B. Drawing
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 05:33 pm |
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I was unemployed for several months last year about this time. It can be very discouraging.
I agree that snail mail is better than e-mail for making an initial contact, and that phoning is better than e-mail for a follow up. Both of these media allow you to better control how you present yourself. Three days seems like a minimum interval for a follow up to me, but I'd never wait for more than a week. I always started the phone call (after introducing myself, of course) by saying I was just checking to see if the person had received my information packet. If you ask if they received your resume, they could answer by saying they're not hiring whether they saw your information or not. This gives you an opening to say what's in your packet. I know, it's probably not going to help much, but you never know.
However, in my experience, it is hard to actually get connected to the people who make decisions about hiring on a cold call. Better to have a qualified source for job leads - i.e. contact a firm that you know is actually looking to hire. I found my current job posted on my local AIA chapter website job bank. If you haven't checked with your local chapter, see if they have some kind of resource like that.
Following up is always a good idea no matter what.
Good luck. There are jobs out there.
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brudgers
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 05:46 pm |
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A bit of further thought on emailing....
If you're going to send something unsolicited via email, call right away to follow up.
If you wait two weeks, it's almost certainly going to be long gone and forgotten.
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Coach
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 05:50 pm |
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| Find a good headhunter.
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Garforth
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Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 09:13 pm |
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Brudgers, I like your idea of calling immediately after email.
When I was looking for my current job, I actually hand delivered my package of cover letter, resume and mini portfolio. With some firms, I called ahead to ask who I address it to and then gave it to them specifically with a handshake. That made sure that it didn't just end up in a generic pile and they knew that I was at least able to make an effort to visit the office. It gave me the added bonus of seeing the location of the firm, and checking the commute. The generic email is probably the worst way to send things to a potential employer. Definately follow up with some sort of personal contact either in phone or person.
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phly1001
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Posted: Sat Oct 25th, 2008 04:46 am |
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Maybe I am just of a younger generation, but I have found sending resumes via email to be very effective. Even unsolicited ones. It all depends on the firm - and the timing.
My opinion on the original question - I would have to agree that about a week is sufficient.
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sixofnine
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Posted: Sun Oct 26th, 2008 10:37 pm |
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I appreciate all the previous advice. Whether I take it or leave it, it does give me something to chew on and think about.
My thoughts: It's tight out there, there are ZERO architecture firms posting job openings in my neck of the woods right now. Even headhunters aren't calling back with any leads. My reason for emailing: Get it there fast and first.
We live in a technology driven world - as much as I dislike the impersonality of it, it's the truth. My last employer, snail mail letters were rare. Type it up in Word, print to pdf, and attach it to Outlook email - keep everything moving forward, and get it off my desk as quick as possible. Also allows for an electronic record, vs. the space and time needed for paper filing.
If you are sending out many unsolicited resumes, then, yes, call first. Get the name, email address on who to send it to, but then send it. You never know, they may not be hiring, but they might see something that gives them reason to talk to you in person. In the last few years, I have seen a lot of junk come in that was supposed to pass as a cover letter and resume. That's why I keep my work straight, no errors. Employers think, "why hire an employee that has misspellings in their cover letter or resume?"
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orlando Lamas
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:47 am |
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Snail Mail works best for me too, seems more personal. I wouldn't wait more than a few days, things get crazy in the office and it could get lost in everyday bustle. Its good to follow up while its still fresh on their mind.
orlando lamas
http://www.bigtimedesignstudios.comLast edited on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:57 am by orlando Lamas
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brudgers
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 03:12 pm |
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sixofnine wrote: I appreciate all the previous advice. Whether I take it or leave it, it does give me something to chew on and think about.
My thoughts: It's tight out there, there are ZERO architecture firms posting job openings in my neck of the woods right now. Even headhunters aren't calling back with any leads. My reason for emailing: Get it there fast and first. In a tight market, jobs usually come through networking. But even for a cold call, if you don't value your resume at $0.42 why would an employer?
We live in a technology driven world - as much as I dislike the impersonality of it, it's the truth. My last employer, snail mail letters were rare. Type it up in Word, print to pdf, and attach it to Outlook email - keep everything moving forward, and get it off my desk as quick as possible. Also allows for an electronic record, vs. the space and time needed for paper filing. "get it off my desk as quick as possible" If that's the receipiet's objective. They probably won't even bother opening it. But that's not your objective. Your objective is to be sticky. Paper is stickier than email. In my opinion, an unsolicited email is usually treated as noise. And the odds of someone holding onto an email resume for 90 days incase something comes up: well they approximate zero.
If you are sending out many unsolicited resumes, then, yes, call first. Get the name, email address on who to send it to, but then send it. You never know, they may not be hiring, but they might see something that gives them reason to talk to you in person. In the last few years, I have seen a lot of junk come in that was supposed to pass as a cover letter and resume. That's why I keep my work straight, no errors. Employers think, "why hire an employee that has misspellings in their cover letter or resume?"
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lqyromeo
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 10:13 am |
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The time i think no one could give you precise time, it depand on the market.
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rdenks
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 06:38 pm |
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I have only emailed my resume and cover letters when that is how they ask for them. On top of that I always send a hard copy via snail mail. I do this because you never know what is going to become of that email. It can easily move down in the inbox, and be overlooked for days or weeks. Not to mention that your resume will always look better printed on a high quality paper, rather than shot out of their copy machine.
I always indicate in my cover letter that I am also sending a hard copy too, and that I will follow up with a telephone call to assure they received the info. I usually wait a week from the time I mailed the hard copy. That gives it time to get there, and a couple of days for them to look it over.
Also remember that if/when you get that interview to ALWAYS send a thank you letter to all the people you interviewed with.
Good luck to you.
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Vladdy
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 07:14 pm |
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When I was looking for a job earlier this year, I did both. Meaning, I would send and e-mail with my resume and a few PDF's of my work. I believe attaching examples of work is KEY!!! We are visual people and a quick glance at a picture might go work a little bit better then a quick glance at a resume. OR a quick glance at a picture might make them look at the resume. Just make sure you send 2-3 examples.
I also would send them the same thing using snail mail. Two things happen then. One, the person sees your name TWICE in about a week. Showing that you are interested in a firm by sending two forms seamed like the correct thing for me. I then waited. Within 2 weeks I had received call backs, responses and what not. I personally did not call anyone. The idea of calling someone to see if they got my e-mail or mail is kind of weird to me. It is like saying, "Hey, does the federal mail system work." OR "Did I use e-mail correctly?" Now I know that plenty of people will disagree with me. But I am just giving you a different view point.
And that is just my take. Good luck!
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rdenks
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 07:51 pm |
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While it may seem weird Vladdy, it does assure that they received your stuff. A lot of admins open mail for people and things get misplaced sometimes. And you know what? The USPS does not always work in a timely fashion. I once received a letter one month from the time it was sent.
On top of that, with all the viruses and spam these days, it would be easy for an email to get dumped into a spam/junk email folder. By calling your assuring that they received your stuff, and if by chance it didn't you can make sure it gets there.
I have never sent images with my resume/cover letter. To me that is what your portfolio is for, and you present that in the interview. I understand how you think that could help you get your foot in with a firm, but I have heard several former employers comment on resumes that were not just basic resume and letter. They all said the didn't have time to go through that much stuff. That is probably were I got me feelings on this issue. Although I can understand your point of view.
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Vladdy
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 08:13 pm |
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As stated, I know that there are a lot of people that will disagree with me not calling. There are plenty of books that say you should. I just could not think of the proper way of talking to someone, who I did not know, without basically asking if the mail works. Again, just my take.
As for sending images with your resume, I am not suggesting to send your whole portfolio. Just a few images. Clearly label your PDF's, cover letter, resume, and examples. If the person wants to just look at the resume, he/she can. OR they can do a quick look at the drawings and then the resume. I do not see a downside to sending a few drawings.
As Brudgers mentioned before, you are trying to be sticky. Sending an image along with your resume might make you more sticky than someone who just sent a resume and a cover letter.
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rdenks
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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I know where you are coming from Vladdy, and I don't necessarily think my way is the best way. I guess I am a little old school when it comes to this stuff. I always think of ways to make my resume/letter more "sticky". I guess my old bosses are more "sticky" though, and I can't break through those conversations with them.
In reality there is no wrong way as long as it works for you. Some do it with images, and some don't. Some call to check up that USPS is still working, and some do not. That is the great thing about being an adult, you get to make all these decisions.
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jstorr
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Posted: Thu Oct 30th, 2008 05:11 pm |
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Trying to figure out the best way to do this myself. I'm a recent grad (well....5 months ago I was) and am finding NOTHING. I've had a handful of interviews but only one was looking to hire at the time. I've tried a couple of things.
The best results I got were by hitting the pavement and dropping off a hard copy of my CV and portfolio. I made this really sexy little portfolio and dropped in DVD of more extensive work in the back (Haven't had feedback on the DVD). Dropped those off at 3 of the firms I wanted to work at and scored an interview with 2. I called back in a week in all 3 cases. One firm apparently can't be bothered to pick up the phone, another responded very quickly, and another lost my portfolio but found in after I kept calling over the course of a few weeks.
I've dropped off my CV and DVD of my work to a number of other places and haven't had near the luck. This is unfortunate as it's a lot cheaper than printing off portfolio's.
I've done the email thing but that's just not going very well. MOST places these days are asking for a digital application, but I just don't get feedback from them. I send a digital copy of my CV and PDF of my portfolio. I call back just over a week later usually get "ok I'll tell them you called". I call back every 2 weeks or so until they've filled the position  . It's kind of hard right now though with no firms hiring in my area most of my applications have been to firms across the country.
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Hephaestus
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Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 06:13 pm |
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I'm going through this exact same thing right now. I've emailed probably 75-85 resumes, cover letters, and letters of recommendation out to potential employers and have only had 6-7 respond. It seems that its just too easy for the person checking the email to push it aside or delete it completely. I'm going to be moving onto phase 2 this week, and start mailing hard copies of everything to the top firms I would like to work with. I am also going to be doing follow-ups with those that have already received my information via email.
In my opinion, its not an either/or situation; you're better off doing all three. Call then email (or email then call), then snail mail, then follow up.
If this doesn't work, I'm going to hit the pavement and show up in their office with my resume, CL, letters of recommendation, and portfolio.
Good luck to all those who are looking for employment right now; its a tough market for sure.
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dottie
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Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 03:55 pm |
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I know things are tough in this economy and many firms are probably waiting for the first of the year and see how things are coming.
There are a couple of entry level (intern) positions listed on the AIA website if moving to a new location is okay.
Hitting the pavement and knocking on doors is the BEST way to find a job. Then people put a face with the resume. CD's with a portfolio? I would save that until your interview. Take in a nice portfolio case with your work. You don't want to give them all of your "stuff" at the start. First the bait then the hook.
Good Luck!
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brudgers
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Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 05:00 pm |
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Hephaestus wrote: I'm going through this exact same thing right now. I've emailed probably 75-85 resumes, cover letters, and letters of recommendation out to potential employers and have only had 6-7 respond. It seems that its just too easy for the person checking the email to push it aside or delete it completely. I'm going to be moving onto phase 2 this week, and start mailing hard copies of everything to the top firms I would like to work with. I am also going to be doing follow-ups with those that have already received my information via email.
In my opinion, its not an either/or situation; you're better off doing all three. Call then email (or email then call), then snail mail, then follow up.
If this doesn't work, I'm going to hit the pavement and show up in their office with my resume, CL, letters of recommendation, and portfolio.
Good luck to all those who are looking for employment right now; its a tough market for sure.
6 responses to 85 blind resumes is pretty good.
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FinitoCompleto
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Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 05:29 pm |
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Here's a tip: if you do a blind mailing of a large number of resumes, come up with some way to keep track of them. And keep that with you so if you get a call from a firm you can at least look at your list and see the basic facts: where that firm is located, what type of work it does, who your contact person is, when you sent your letter, etc.
There have been a few times when I've called people to talk more or to schedule interviews where it's been clear that they have no recollection of the firm at all - and sometimes these are people who have even sent very specific cover letters about why they'd be a good fit in the firm. They have expected me to explain to them the basics like where we are, what we do, etc. over the phone, when I expect them to know these things already (unless they're responding to an advertisement that deliberately omitted identifying info about the firm, but we don't do that much.)
This makes it clear to me that they probably sent out a very large number of resumes. One guy even said, after I told him my name and the name of the firm "can you be more specific? I sent out 100 letters last week". This really isn't a good fact for a potential interviewer to have. You always want the firm to think you have done your research and targeted their firm specifically because you feel you're a great fit for them. Don't let on that you're blindly scattering resumes to the winds.
As for whether to email or snail mail: you can do both. Nobody will hold it against you (well not unless you go beyond one emailed and one snail-mailed copy. Nobody wants to be spammed repeatedly.) You can say in your email that you've also put a paper copy in the mail to them. This can be effective also because a paper copy may be distributed to a different subset of the management than an email.
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graythreat
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 06:48 pm |
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Good points on tracking and not sending my entire portfolio (this is jstorr...with a new login....I lost my password and it's taking too long to send it to me)
I started keeping a detailed spreadsheet about the time I started blanketing the west coast. EVERY time I put out an application I start by adding the company name in alphabetical order to my spread sheet..in the next column I list the city...the next column has the phone #, the next column the contact person, job title and where it was advertised (or if it's a cold call), the next colmun has the date....each time I get in contact with them I add a new column with the date followed by what happened...for example...left a message with ______, or spoke with ______ she said to call back ___. Etc. etc. I've found this to work the best. I then color code it.....green means they'll get back to me, red means they're not hiring, yellow means they're interested but not hiring right now, black means I haven't gotten in touch with them yet. It's become very easy to answer their questions on the spot. I have the exact job title, where I saw it, and when I sent it all in one place. I can easily reference old conversations and pull facts.
I spoke with career services at my school today. The lady had a few suggestions, made a few changes to my resume. I'm going to retool it, make a website, and hit the pavement after christmas...i'll keep plugging until then but odds are after thanksgiving there won't be a whole lot of movement.
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grotodmuroferatodwww
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 09:12 pm |
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I think you should call as soon as possible to talk to who evers hiring.
keep calling until you can land an interview. it shows how persistant this person is. I never remember the people that only called once and interview once. I always remember the person who call and call to ask for the job
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graythreat
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 04:55 pm |
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grotodmuroferatodwww wrote: I think you should call as soon as possible to talk to who evers hiring.
keep calling until you can land an interview. it shows how persistant this person is. I never remember the people that only called once and interview once. I always remember the person who call and call to ask for the job
Is there a limit to this? I had a great interview with a firm who said that they're very interested and had hoped to bring me on soon, but the bottom fell out a week later. I've been on hold for the last 3 months or so. I call back every week or two to keep them posted and hear the same "we're very interested and trying to figure out where we can allocate our resources..keep in touch".
Is there a better way to keep in touch? Do i call them more or less? I'm trying not to be annoying as hell but I've always heard that you need to push.
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