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csmith120
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Posted: Sat Nov 8th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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Can anybody suggest a decent professional liability insurance policy with reasonable premium for a starter who wants to practice on side (moonlighting) still maintaining current job?
Thanks for your input.
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stl-guy
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| Joined: | Mon Jan 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | St. Louis, Missouri USA |
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 02:01 am |
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csmith120 wrote: Can anybody suggest a decent professional liability insurance policy with reasonable premium for a starter who wants to practice on side (moonlighting) still maintaining current job?
Thanks for your input.
There are several.
I would suggest a Name insurance company who specializes in insurance for Architects and engineers and who will provide you with the backup of their attorney who you can speak to at any time and ask questions for any of your legal needs or advice at no extra cost.
The attorney factor is often of equal or greater importance than speaking to customer service or even the agent of the underwriting insurance company.
The attorney will be the one defending you if a claim is made against you. You need to be comfortable with the legal firm representing you on behalf of your insurance company. they are usually not one in the same.
It is probably not fair to list but I would consider for starters:
CNA/Schinnerer
PCM
AIG
Average price in my state is $60-70/mo. per professional.
Last edited on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 02:02 am by stl-guy
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brudgers
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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csmith120 wrote: Can anybody suggest a decent professional liability insurance policy with reasonable premium for a starter who wants to practice on side (moonlighting) still maintaining current job?
Thanks for your input.
Generally E&O is sold by insurance agencies not directly by the carrier.
Most agents can offer policies from multiple carriers.
The place to start is with an agency.
***Schinnerer's policies are generally tailored for medium to large practices...according to my agent. Their quoted rates were not competitive in my opinion.
Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 02:42 pm by brudgers
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nkumar
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| Joined: | Mon May 23rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Memphis |
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 03:51 pm |
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| where do I find list of agents? Probably I can do some google search. However i am thinking if you know some good one. Thanks
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gleearch
Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 09:05 pm |
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Use a broker. they can shop around for you. As a start up there are now policies that can lock in your premium for 3 years max. Since premiums are based on your total gross income, it's good to lock it in for the most number of years possible if you foresee your business growing.
Remember since you are a start up and you have not filed a return yet, you are asked by the carrier to project your income. So when you do project your income, based on what you are already making on current projects and try not to inflate it. This way if it appears low, you have documentation to back your claim.
It's about getting a decent premium and not about stoking your pride.
If your business grows tremendously after the third year, then be prepared for sticker shock when you renegotiate. However by then, hopefully you are making more that it won't be such a big deal.
Look at business liability too while you are at it.
I just reread your post. If you are moon lighting you may not be able to obtain coverage, so talk to your broker. If you can't find any on your own, check out your local AIA chapter. They normally have listings of A/E partners and many brokers contribute.
Last edited on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 09:07 pm by gleearch
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Gdrinkh2o
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 02:26 am |
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Good question, I just came into this situation myself. I have a great FT job but have done a couple of smaller type residential projects on the side. I recently got approached for a commercial project and think its time to take a look at insurance.
gleearch, why would it matter if someone is moonlighting? Meaning if rates and coverage are based on annual revenue, whats the difference between moonlighting and and someone (who has had a slow year) starting out on their own ?
Im new to the insurance thing but I fail to see how working after hours increases potential risk for the insurer.
I have a feeling many young architects are in the same boat on this one....
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brudgers
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 05:09 pm |
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Gdrinkh2o wrote: Good question, I just came into this situation myself. I have a great FT job but have done a couple of smaller type residential projects on the side. I recently got approached for a commercial project and think its time to take a look at insurance.
gleearch, why would it matter if someone is moonlighting? Meaning if rates and coverage are based on annual revenue, whats the difference between moonlighting and and someone (who has had a slow year) starting out on their own ?
Im new to the insurance thing but I fail to see how working after hours increases potential risk for the insurer.
I have a feeling many young architects are in the same boat on this one....
As a registered architect, you may already be covered by your firm's policy.
Should a problem arise, a claim may be made against their carrier.
To complicate matters, the moonlighting work is probably not disclosed on the firm's insurance application.
On the other hand from a straight business standpoint, they may be concerned that you are likely to go into competition with the firm.
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gleearch
Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 06:49 pm |
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Brudgers,
Thank you.
Gdrinkh2o,
Additionally if you disclose to your broker that the liability coverage you are seeking is for moonlighting work, their coverage may not include it. Possible conflicts.
Say for some reason you end up with a claim against you while moonlighting.
The attorney will go after not just you but the firm that you work for. The firm may not have a clue but since you are employed by them they will seek damages against the firm. It increases the odds of them actually being able to recover something, since as a moonlighter they are aware that you may not have a lot of assets.
You probably did not think about your employer either and indemnified them specifically in your contract. Heck, if you talked to your client while at work, or received a fax on company equipment, or sneaked in a plot on their plotters, or used their phones or even if you met with the client during your regular work day lunch hour, the attorney will use all as that as a way to tie your employer to your moonlighting project. While some employers seem to be progressive and allow their employees to moonlight, most do not and will have language specifically preventing you from doing so. ( That is to do architecture moonlighting. You could probably have two or 3 other non architecture related jobs and they would not care).
Your employer is open season as far as that attorney is concerned. Say by some chance the same liability insurance firm covered your employer as well as you. Who then becomes the primary insurance holder that pays in event of a claim?
You are the reason of the claim but your employer gets hit for it. Not knowing has never been a good defense for employers.
Now consider this, if enough doubt exist and if the contracts are not clear, guess what?
The insurance company in some cases can walk away by stating the situation is not insurable and did not meet the terms of the policy. Remember that just because you paid your premium and they accepted it, does not always mean that they have to pay a claim.
Anytime a contract contains language that is not insurable or you created a situation that they can walk away from, they will.
Which is why I say that you need to ask your broker for proper clarification. They might be able to insure you or not. Ask them. None of us here are insurance professionals.
Another piece of advice. Let your broker review your contracts first. A good broker is worth their commission. The moment they see an uninsurable contract, they will tell you. Last thing you need is to give the carrier a way to walk from the table.
Last edited on Thu Nov 13th, 2008 07:08 pm by gleearch
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Gdrinkh2o
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 07:35 pm |
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brudgers wrote: Gdrinkh2o wrote: Good question, I just came into this situation myself. I have a great FT job but have done a couple of smaller type residential projects on the side. I recently got approached for a commercial project and think its time to take a look at insurance.
gleearch, why would it matter if someone is moonlighting? Meaning if rates and coverage are based on annual revenue, whats the difference between moonlighting and and someone (who has had a slow year) starting out on their own ?
Im new to the insurance thing but I fail to see how working after hours increases potential risk for the insurer.
I have a feeling many young architects are in the same boat on this one....
As a registered architect, you may already be covered by your firm's policy.
Should a problem arise, a claim may be made against their carrier.
To complicate matters, the moonlighting work is probably not disclosed on the firm's insurance application.
On the other hand from a straight business standpoint, they may be concerned that you are likely to go into competition with the firm.
I do not work for an A/E firm. I work for large international mfr. company as a construction engineer. Basically I design and then manage construction for any projects we have. My job does not require me to stamp off on anything. If we need stamped drawings, we send out our design drawings for an A/E firm to put cd's together and then stamp off (to spread out the liability). I think my case is out of the norm...not sure I would have the same problems.
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