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grotodmuroferatodwww
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 07:27 pm |
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Hi guys long time.
I have finished my exam for a while now. I partnered with someone and started my own office. The office is doing well. We're hiring eventhough I heard that alot of archi office is laying off people. I am making a good living. But despite all that I'm unhappy.
A part of it have to do with my family issues but besides that I'm really not happy being an architect or if I can still call myself that. Before I finish the ARE I thought making alot of $ and being the boss would bring me some happiness. But that's not the case. Being the boss of an starting archi office means that I have to deal with every aspects of the office from taking out the garbage to meeting with client and govt officials. I spend almost 90% of the time managing the office and only have 10% of the time left for family and design which i love the most. I rarely have a moment during working hours to sit down and design something these days. I'm constantly in and out of the office. when i'm in the office i get millions of questions on how to do this and that and who just called and what I need to do. when everything settle down the phone start ringing and some client is waiting in the meeting room etc....I have to deal with really smart GCs, tricky GCs, upset clients, demanding clients, and the no matter what you say they would not understand clients, clients who listens to anyone but you clients, their lawyers, building department officials etc.....It is like everyday instead of doing architecture i'm a manager trying to keep a balance in the office and trying to keep this boat afloat. It is emotionally stressful
I'm really stress out at this point. I worry about if the office have enough jobs this moment to keep this ship running for this month....for next month and so on. When I have enough jobs I worry about if I have enough power to finish everything on time to meet deadlines.
It is not easy at all to have an office. We do not get pay enough for projects to give us enough $ to hire enough help like other professions. I have to balance everything out and spent alot of time managing to make the office profitable and in the meantime be knowledgable to not make any mistake. But by doing this it takes away what I love doing which is spending time with family and friends and designing and making spaces.
So what if I'm making $. I'm not happy at all. I miss the old 9-5 mon to fri internship days. Atleast after 5 I dont have to think about anything and just have fun.
Some people will say what do you have to complaint about. You have a family, a good office and you passed the ARE......well for those of you who think that way......someday you'll understand...
Last edited on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 07:34 pm by grotodmuroferatodwww
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Alright
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Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2008 09:50 pm |
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Very refreshing post. I think a lot of young architects seem to think "I'm gonna open up my own office" and somehow the profession gets fun.
Let's face it: Architecture is a terrible profession. The reward isn't even close to being high enough to justify all the crap that comes with this abysmal profession.
Feel better though, you are one of the lucky ones who seems to get this. I'm 29 and will get my license by the end of the year, and it's just hitting me how much I can't stand architects and this profession.
Good luck getting back to what is important in life! I wish you the best!
- Alright
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viper
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 02:09 am |
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There must have been some kind of ambition and passion for architecture for you to start your own practice. I know the feeling of dealing with the wide spectrum of people involved with the design and construction process, and for the most part life would be so much more satifying if half these people weren't clinically insane but those are the cards that most architects are dealt. I would reaffirm what your goals and motivations have been that led you to this point in life, and once you take solace in those figure out if those goals and motivations are still relevant.
Just over a week ago I became a statistic and was laid off from my job. As much as it sucked I was actually giddy knowing that I will be able to fulfill my goal of starting my own practice. I know this profession sucks and I know there won't be anything easy about starting out, especially in this economy (although for whatever reason I'm remaining upbeat about that too). But the one aspect of going out on your own that trumps everything that I've experienced while working for someone else is that there is no longer a plateau - every option is on the table.
I hope you find your answers.
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dragonfly
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 02:49 am |
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wow- very interesting perspective from all the above posts.
i think it has to be one of the toughtest jobs to own a company, deal with what you have to deal with: staff, finance, managing, clients, relationships, present work, future work, etc...
our office just laid off recently as well. i was fortunate and not one to be let go however if it had been me, i think i would have been ok with that as well.
the only reason i'd be ok is because my husband is the bread winner of the family which is fortunate for us. however if it had happened to me... i too would be able to spend more time with my children, seeing i think they need me more at home, and no one can replace my role in their life. i would take my four year old out of daycare which i spend way too much money on to begin with, as well as spend more time with my 9 year old daughter and try to have fun raising them without the stress of the life i've lead most of their lives. esp. these past 3 years while taking these ARE exams which i'm only half way done with completing i might add. it's been no easy journey for me juggling everything i have to do.
financially it would be tight for us too but i think at the end of the day you need to take a step back and assess what is happening around you and see what you can do to improve your situation. life is short and i guess i have a very black and white approach to it. making desicions in this aspect is easier for me to analyze to see what needs to be done next.
in october of this year i did cut my hours back from a 40 hr work week to a 34 hour work week inorder to achieve some of the above mentioned goals. now at least 3 days out of the week i'm home when my daughter gets home from school to spend time with her and take her to her after school activites which i was not able to do when i was working a 40 hour work week. most everybody knows a 40 hour work week never really means a 40 hour work week either. this profession entails overtime and in huge amounts! at least this is what i've experienced with almost every project i've worked on since i started working in architecture from the mid-90's till present.
even though with this financial crunch, i know i've made the best decision for my family.
it is very unfortunate we are all facing such an economic crisis at this time and one that does not look very promising to change in the near future.
all i can say is that i hope you find the guidance, strength, wisdom, courage, and answers you need to figure out what will fullfill your happiness.
all the best!
dragonfly
Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:38 am by dragonfly
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Alright
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:13 am |
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dragonfly wrote: most everybody knows a 40 hour work week never really means a 40 hour work week either. this profession entails overtime and in huge amounts with almost every project i've worked on since i started working in architecture in the mid-90's.
dragonfly
This is a product of architects being terrible businessmen and women...horrible time-managers, etc. Bad at utilizing their team-members in an efficient manner...let consultants and owners abuse them, etc. Overtime is a necessity on every project because of this. And it never ends. You finish one hectic project, and somewhere else in the office there is another PM or boss running around like a chicken with his head cut off, and you have to help them meet their deadline.
Again, Dragon I think you are wise for discovering what is important to you and courageous for acting on it. I wish more people would do this, which might force PMs to become better managers of time and personnel.
But they are never encouraged to "figure it out", because by the time people (like you) cut back or leave the profession entirely, there are a gaggle of wide-eyed, fresh fish idealists churning out of the overstuffed architecture programs across the nation. Managers never have to figure it out because of this.
- Alright
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dawnatello
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 08:24 am |
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Alright wrote:
This is a product of architects being terrible businessmen and women...horrible time-managers, etc. Bad at utilizing their team-members in an efficient manner...let consultants and owners abuse them, etc. Overtime is a necessity on every project because of this. And it never ends.
i think the bad economy prompt a lot of soul searching because i had the same conversation w a contractor friend of mine the other day.
i totally understand the overwhelming amount of work one has to take on when you run your own firm - i do, and a small gourp we have too. yes, i have to make sure all office supply is in stock, at the same time, QA everything that comes out of our office. not to mention chasing projects. in the past couple months i'm worried sh*tless everyday because there's nothing coming in, so i asked the office to take Fridays off. In turn, I make sure we refocus our energy to professional development. I'm taking 2 exams by the end of this year and I have my other staff get his LEED by Jan 09.
having your own business is not glamorous like your friends think - even though i do envious of how well you seem to be doing. (would like to know how you get work, but probably on another post). i have very little business background (i just learned i have to make business plan and set X year goals - duh). granted, i am a PE, and got my MArch 3 years ago. when i told my contractor friend about my financial crisis - he said, i told you to get an MBA or take some business classes.
oh sorry, i only have a PE and a MArch and now 1/2 way to RA... still not enough knowledge. how does a contractor with a highschool diploma owns two sparkly SUVs and i'm sweating away in pubic transportation (tho i take public transportation any day than to contribute to green house gas), i would never know!
point being, it's tough. we (architects and engineers alike) were not trained in business in school but hey, we are smart and diligent enough to get through a PROFESSIONAL program. we can pick up business if we want to. at the end, it's your CHOICE. my choice is to stick with what i do now even though i'm losing sleep. i get totally high getting great clients, and be able to work on something unexpected like landing a project in china.
i agree with Alright about the way we work with others as well. again, i recently posted a b*tching message on AIA small practice forum about why architects don't seem to work with each other. oh god, being half non-architect, i want to strangle us sometimes! think of the possibilities of banding together at a time like this. projects need architects, and the money is out there. why can't we get the projects and split among ourselves instead of giving them away to contractors? this maybe more relevant to residential work.
but i digress.
you always have a choice. and in your position, like my contractor friend told me, you can choose to tough it out and come out proud of your achievement. you can also choose to take a break and work for someone to satisfy your immediate needs, like family, or yourself/design. they're BOTH very worthy options.
Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 08:29 am by dawnatello
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brudgers
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 02:54 pm |
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How many freshman have any sort of clue about architectural practice at the start of first year studio?
Or even when they walk across the stage five years later?
As for owning a firm, unless entreprenuership gives you a buzz, don't do it.
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RK
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:05 pm |
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About 3 years into my last job, which lasted 9 years, I knew I didn't want my bosses job. He was really no longer an architect in terms of what he did involving architecture but he certainly is an architect. His time is spent running an architectural office and that is what he does while making pretty good money at it.
Good luck. I'm glad for those who make business work. Without them I wouldn't have been employed.
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sharcitect
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:25 pm |
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I, too, would like to run my own firm one day but I understand how time for family and actual design work could completely disappear.
My brother once told me there are 3 things in life: Work, Fun and Sleep. At any period in our lives we only have time to really accomplish 2 out of the 3.
In your case, it sounds like you might want to consider bringing in another partner or experienced manager to take some of the workload off your plate (if you can afford to make less $$$) so you can have more time for Fun and 'fun' Work. Maybe that person could actually bring in a client or two and you wouldn't suffer financially either.
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#9
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 06:10 pm |
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| I can't emphasize enough how important it is for students of architecture to do internships while in school. Volumes have been written about the disparity between the idealism taught in school and the realities of the workplace. I did have a professor say once that the heavy dose of idealism is okay during your school years and to enjoy it while you can because you'll have the rest of your life to learn the reallties of the workplace. Of course, he had gone back to teaching. It's tough to find a balance.
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8x8
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 10:33 pm |
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Most clients has a very limited budget. If we give them a very limited scope , most likely the project will not even get approved by City due to so many regulations over here in California. Some very simple looking residential projects here sometimes can go above $20K and technically it is still in conceptual design stage due to intense design reviews from City, Coastal planning and neighbour's lawyer. Most client don't understand this.
I learnt that Santiago Calatrava is owed $11 million plus for the Spire Condo project in Chicago.
Yes architect must be good business man...and if your are a good business man you will ask why the [url=mailto *(AT)X]X*(AT)X[/url] am I doing this, I should be a builder or developer instead.
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sat Nov 15th, 2008 11:50 pm |
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I work with an architect who has been doing this for close to 45 years. I am his only employee. I have only been with him for 5 months and really enjoy my work and usually his mannerisms and personality. We hit it off because while I am 20 years his junior, we share the same general work ethic and have generally a history of personal growth in our lives.
I am now, hopefully finished with IDP ( turned in my EVF last week woo hoo). I am hopefully going to be eligible to sit for the ARE sometime starting in the Spring.
In the office I run the carpet sweeper, clean the toilets/floors/sinks, wash windows, empty the trash, organize the vendor catalogs, organize the multitude of old project files that are generally just in a heap, organize the 10 drawer flat file holding 40 years of work, starting to set up folders on computer so that I don't spend an hour each day looking for some obscure bit of information he needs on a project completed 3 years ago, provide answering service when I'm in the office by myself on thursdays when he go to play golf, assist in writing specs, doing code research, sd's, dd's, cd's, arrange the 6' supply cabinet and the 6' electronic cabinet, get the mail and make coffee. I love it. I'd take on more responsibility and like to be involved with more of the financial aspects of the business and projects.
Friday I was told that he didn't have my paycheck because he is owed $15,000 from a hud building official and might not get it on Monday. I haven't told my wife, she'd tell me not to work this weekend until I get paid for the last 2 weeks, But if I don't then the project will suffer and ....who knows.
My point is that I do enjoy my job. With all the problems, there are days that I am proud of the work I do. I hope he gets paid and I hope I get paid.
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sat Nov 15th, 2008 11:56 pm |
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| ps, he is the first one to say that he has lousy organization skills, but then, that's why he hired me. I just hope the organization skills he has includes getting paid by clients.
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Alright
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 06:31 am |
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pgharchintern wrote: Friday I was told that he didn't have my paycheck because he is owed $15,000 from a hud building official and might not get it on Monday. I haven't told my wife, she'd tell me not to work this weekend until I get paid for the last 2 weeks, But if I don't then the project will suffer and ....who knows.
I hope he gets paid and I hope I get paid.
Hope isn't a strategy. And you should seriously consider telling your wife, for Pete's sake. It's her right to know you are being stiffed by this guy. I dunno, between deciding who to piss off, I'd probably pick some old dude who is withholding money from me before I would choose my wife.
Be honest with her. I know how you must feel. Like you said, you want to keep working because if the project slacks...guess who has to work OT to get it back to speed? You. Just be honest with her. Tell her he's waiting to get paid and if you don't work now you'll have to work harder later. She just may understand. Or she'll get mad at you and in that case, punch her.
- Alright
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 05:09 pm |
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She'll know soon enough if I don't get paid on Monday. No need to ruin anyone's weekend but mine.
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 05:12 pm |
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Punch her?
There's a good strategy. I wonder what part of the ARE that philosophy falls into....tuh!
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grotodmuroferatodwww
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 08:58 pm |
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Thanks guys
I used to work for this same office and the office owe me once $30000 in pay cause the way they manage the jobs is like you said the same way they manage their life....very messy. Back then I was interning while I'm in school. I learn alot about the real world of architecture and not the school fantasy all we do is meuseum project dream. But still I did not know the amount of time I would need and the amount of stress I would face. I never knew about that until I become the boss. It's something any intern can ever experience. I now truely understand why most architect are either divorce or have a bad life.
It's very very hard to run this business. I just find out that yesterday when I'm stressed out at work it would affect my family as well. I get easily upset at home when I have a bad day at work. So if the GF start a little spark. I will turn it into a forest fire.
I once thought when I have alot of jobs and $ I would be happy.....watch out.. The only thing that is making me feel better is work harder and try to finish everything on time which at times it's impossible.
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Smiley
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 05:07 pm |
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pgharchintern wrote: I work with an architect who has been doing this for close to 45 years. I am his only employee. I have only been with him for 5 months and really enjoy my work and usually his mannerisms and personality. We hit it off because while I am 20 years his junior, we share the same general work ethic and have generally a history of personal growth in our lives.
I am now, hopefully finished with IDP ( turned in my EVF last week woo hoo). I am hopefully going to be eligible to sit for the ARE sometime starting in the Spring.
In the office I run the carpet sweeper, clean the toilets/floors/sinks, wash windows, empty the trash, organize the vendor catalogs, organize the multitude of old project files that are generally just in a heap, organize the 10 drawer flat file holding 40 years of work, starting to set up folders on computer so that I don't spend an hour each day looking for some obscure bit of information he needs on a project completed 3 years ago, provide answering service when I'm in the office by myself on thursdays when he go to play golf, assist in writing specs, doing code research, sd's, dd's, cd's, arrange the 6' supply cabinet and the 6' electronic cabinet, get the mail and make coffee. I love it. I'd take on more responsibility and like to be involved with more of the financial aspects of the business and projects.
Friday I was told that he didn't have my paycheck because he is owed $15,000 from a hud building official and might not get it on Monday. I haven't told my wife, she'd tell me not to work this weekend until I get paid for the last 2 weeks, But if I don't then the project will suffer and ....who knows.
My point is that I do enjoy my job. With all the problems, there are days that I am proud of the work I do. I hope he gets paid and I hope I get paid.
Your Employer seems very familar to me, as if you're talking about someone whom once I worked for as a second part-time job (I was working part time then), except he's in another state and city.
I still don't understand how he enjoys golfing on Thursdays leaving you doing all the work, and then doesn't pay your paycheck??!! I hope you're not being used!
But it's a different story if you're happy with all of that! Just keep your eyes open on some better opportunities may be some time when the economy starts picking up.
Good Luck always.
Also I agree with sharcitect regarding grotodmuroferatodwww: may be you should consider partnering with someone you trust who can carry some of the stress off of you.
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