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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 05:38 pm |
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Situation 1:
Architect is commissioned to do a project. Architect is getting paid portions of fee over life of project. Final fee payment is held because client ( who is a HUD supervisor ) is a "poor paper processor" doesn't file the paperwork in a timely fashion. Meanwhile, the entire staff of the firm doesn't get paychecks on payday.
What can the architect do to eliminate this problem occuring again with any client?
Situation 2:
Architect is hired by contractor to do a project. Architect uses AIA contract document en mass and contractor agees - all signatures from all parties are there. Three projects are paid without incident. Fourth project the contractor* and the architect don't get paid ( * so the contractor says he didn't get his final draw either ).
Again, the architect can't pay his staff on payday. What could/should he do to eliminate this problem from occuring again?
Situation 3:
Architect is commissioned by client to produce drawings for a residential project for an additon to a house. All AIA contract docs are agreed upon and signed. Architect does drawings, turns over drawings to client and client only issues 30% of payment.
Architect can't pay staff on payday.
What could be done to eliminate this problem from occuring?
These situations have happened to me while working with various architects locally. They are small firms with 1 to 13 employees. In one case, 5 people were fired or terminated for "poor performance" while 3 more just quit and 2 others are now shopped out to other firms.
Is this a systemic or overall profession problem with the way firms do business? If there was a poll of how many firms have had this problem, what would the % be? Secondly, for firms who haven't experienced this, what are they doing to prevent this from occuring?
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skyhook
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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Unfortunatley some architects run their firms like they do their lives (this was the disorganized leader, right ?)
In a perfect world ( and I see the comedy in that statement, ), whatever the size of the firm, they keep either reserve capitol or credit lines available to make payroll. If employees checks are being held, that means the past profits were not saved and/or reinvested in the company equity base. The profits were extracted and disposed of or invested in non-liquid holdings. If their is a business credit line, it may now be maxed, and they may be relegated to chasing deposits.
If payroll is an issue (or the lack of it), the firm is basically asking you to extend them credit, and unless you have an equity share, I don't think this is a reasonable request. They have elected to keep staff, despite the obvious economic indicators to streamline.
Its a tough time, so I do also see the employees temptation to wait it out, given the options or lack of. Sorry for the bleakness of the response. Best wishes to you for wisdom on this.
Last edited on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 03:55 am by skyhook
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stl-guy
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 08:06 pm |
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pgharchintern wrote: Situation 1:
Architect is commissioned to do a project. Architect is getting paid portions of fee over life of project. Final fee payment is held because client ( who is a HUD supervisor ) is a "poor paper processor" doesn't file the paperwork in a timely fashion. Meanwhile, the entire staff of the firm doesn't get paychecks on payday.
What can the architect do to eliminate this problem occuring again with any client?
Situation 2:
Architect is hired by contractor to do a project. Architect uses AIA contract document en mass and contractor agees - all signatures from all parties are there. Three projects are paid without incident. Fourth project the contractor* and the architect don't get paid ( * so the contractor says he didn't get his final draw either ).
Again, the architect can't pay his staff on payday. What could/should he do to eliminate this problem from occuring again?
Situation 3:
Architect is commissioned by client to produce drawings for a residential project for an additon to a house. All AIA contract docs are agreed upon and signed. Architect does drawings, turns over drawings to client and client only issues 30% of payment.
Architect can't pay staff on payday.
What could be done to eliminate this problem from occuring?
These situations have happened to me while working with various architects locally. They are small firms with 1 to 13 employees. In one case, 5 people were fired or terminated for "poor performance" while 3 more just quit and 2 others are now shopped out to other firms.
Is this a systemic or overall profession problem with the way firms do business? If there was a poll of how many firms have had this problem, what would the % be? Secondly, for firms who haven't experienced this, what are they doing to prevent this from occuring?
I hope not to give you bum advise so the first thing I will tell you is to contact either your Professional Liability insurance carrier who can often provide some free legal assistance or contact your attorney. If you have neither, you are up the creek without a paddle.
As architects, we read and sign the contracts, AIA or our own agreements but often don't actually know what is contractually binding and what is BS.
Situation 1. Slow pay and or no pay from the government. file a claim and ask for payment with interest plus damages due to the situation.
Situation 2. You were hired by the contractor, not too unusual. Our policy with any consultants we hire is that they are not paid until we are paid. Your contractor is telling you the same. You can file a lien against the contractor and the work.
Situation 3. File and sue for non payment or write off the loss. The write off would be my suggestion. The legal costs would probably out weigh the collection effort. On a secondary note however, you could directly hire a collection agency like Client Services Inc. They are skip tracers that usualy get results. You may recover 20-30%. The collection agency gets the rest. You however get the satisfaction that client who failed to pay will legally be served and will need to pay or meet in court and possibly his have wages garnished, etc. until the incident is resolved.
Either way, the lawyers and skip tracers will make most of the money if any is to be recovered.
Keep in mind that it It is also possible for the client to file a counter claim against you for whatever reason, just to hang you up and make you pay additional legal fees.
I think I would just walk away from situation 3. and try to write off the loss with the IRS.
Last edited on Sun Nov 16th, 2008 08:13 pm by stl-guy
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 08:08 pm |
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| In our firm's case, no hires of new employees have been engaged, 3 projects have been farmed out to 2 other architects, a CM/CA firm has been hired by the client for at one project that is to be bid out and now I'm hearing that my paycheck is being held because another client hasn't paid a final fee. So I'm slowly beginning to read the writing on the wall, again. This is really stressing me out. Anyone hiring?
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 11:57 pm |
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stl-guy wrote: pgharchintern wrote: Situation 1:
Architect is commissioned to do a project. Architect is getting paid portions of fee over life of project. Final fee payment is held because client ( who is a HUD supervisor ) is a "poor paper processor" doesn't file the paperwork in a timely fashion. Meanwhile, the entire staff of the firm doesn't get paychecks on payday.
What can the architect do to eliminate this problem occuring again with any client?
Situation 2:
Architect is hired by contractor to do a project. Architect uses AIA contract document en mass and contractor agees - all signatures from all parties are there. Three projects are paid without incident. Fourth project the contractor* and the architect don't get paid ( * so the contractor says he didn't get his final draw either ).
Again, the architect can't pay his staff on payday. What could/should he do to eliminate this problem from occuring again?
Situation 3:
Architect is commissioned by client to produce drawings for a residential project for an additon to a house. All AIA contract docs are agreed upon and signed. Architect does drawings, turns over drawings to client and client only issues 30% of payment.
Architect can't pay staff on payday.
What could be done to eliminate this problem from occuring?
These situations have happened to me while working with various architects locally. They are small firms with 1 to 13 employees. In one case, 5 people were fired or terminated for "poor performance" while 3 more just quit and 2 others are now shopped out to other firms.
Is this a systemic or overall profession problem with the way firms do business? If there was a poll of how many firms have had this problem, what would the % be? Secondly, for firms who haven't experienced this, what are they doing to prevent this from occuring?
I hope not to give you bum advise so the first thing I will tell you is to contact either your Professional Liability insurance carrier who can often provide some free legal assistance or contact your attorney. If you have neither, you are up the creek without a paddle.
As architects, we read and sign the contracts, AIA or our own agreements but often don't actually know what is contractually binding and what is BS.
Situation 1. Slow pay and or no pay from the government. file a claim and ask for payment with interest plus damages due to the situation.
Situation 2. You were hired by the contractor, not too unusual. Our policy with any consultants we hire is that they are not paid until we are paid. Your contractor is telling you the same. You can file a lien against the contractor and the work.
Situation 3. File and sue for non payment or write off the loss. The write off would be my suggestion. The legal costs would probably out weigh the collection effort. On a secondary note however, you could directly hire a collection agency like Client Services Inc. They are skip tracers that usualy get results. You may recover 20-30%. The collection agency gets the rest. You however get the satisfaction that client who failed to pay will legally be served and will need to pay or meet in court and possibly his have wages garnished, etc. until the incident is resolved.
Either way, the lawyers and skip tracers will make most of the money if any is to be recovered.
Keep in mind that it It is also possible for the client to file a counter claim against you for whatever reason, just to hang you up and make you pay additional legal fees.
I think I would just walk away from situation 3. and try to write off the loss with the IRS.
Ok so are these 3 situations sop for the majority of firms? What's the % of firms who has this problem?
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tropical-hut
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 02:24 am |
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pgharchintern wrote: stl-guy wrote: pgharchintern wrote: Situation 1:
Architect is commissioned to do a project. Architect is getting paid portions of fee over life of project. Final fee payment is held because client ( who is a HUD supervisor ) is a "poor paper processor" doesn't file the paperwork in a timely fashion. Meanwhile, the entire staff of the firm doesn't get paychecks on payday.
What can the architect do to eliminate this problem occuring again with any client?
Situation 2:
Architect is hired by contractor to do a project. Architect uses AIA contract document en mass and contractor agees - all signatures from all parties are there. Three projects are paid without incident. Fourth project the contractor* and the architect don't get paid ( * so the contractor says he didn't get his final draw either ).
Again, the architect can't pay his staff on payday. What could/should he do to eliminate this problem from occuring again?
Situation 3:
Architect is commissioned by client to produce drawings for a residential project for an additon to a house. All AIA contract docs are agreed upon and signed. Architect does drawings, turns over drawings to client and client only issues 30% of payment.
Architect can't pay staff on payday.
What could be done to eliminate this problem from occuring?
These situations have happened to me while working with various architects locally. They are small firms with 1 to 13 employees. In one case, 5 people were fired or terminated for "poor performance" while 3 more just quit and 2 others are now shopped out to other firms.
Is this a systemic or overall profession problem with the way firms do business? If there was a poll of how many firms have had this problem, what would the % be? Secondly, for firms who haven't experienced this, what are they doing to prevent this from occuring?
I hope not to give you bum advise so the first thing I will tell you is to contact either your Professional Liability insurance carrier who can often provide some free legal assistance or contact your attorney. If you have neither, you are up the creek without a paddle.
As architects, we read and sign the contracts, AIA or our own agreements but often don't actually know what is contractually binding and what is BS.
Situation 1. Slow pay and or no pay from the government. file a claim and ask for payment with interest plus damages due to the situation.
Situation 2. You were hired by the contractor, not too unusual. Our policy with any consultants we hire is that they are not paid until we are paid. Your contractor is telling you the same. You can file a lien against the contractor and the work.
Situation 3. File and sue for non payment or write off the loss. The write off would be my suggestion. The legal costs would probably out weigh the collection effort. On a secondary note however, you could directly hire a collection agency like Client Services Inc. They are skip tracers that usualy get results. You may recover 20-30%. The collection agency gets the rest. You however get the satisfaction that client who failed to pay will legally be served and will need to pay or meet in court and possibly his have wages garnished, etc. until the incident is resolved.
Either way, the lawyers and skip tracers will make most of the money if any is to be recovered.
Keep in mind that it It is also possible for the client to file a counter claim against you for whatever reason, just to hang you up and make you pay additional legal fees.
I think I would just walk away from situation 3. and try to write off the loss with the IRS.
Ok so are these 3 situations sop for the majority of firms? What's the % of firms who has this problem?
Vast majority of firms out there will encounter this kind of situation especially in todays economy. My Boss golden rule on this is, before entering into any kind of legal contract is to know your "clients" or " contractors" background. Do a research about how they deal with previous architects and check if they have sufficient funds and what are alternatives to make the project feasible base on their budget.
The great architect Frank Lloyd Wright ask his client if they have enough money to pay "him" before he accept any commission. Which is I think makes sense, he pays a lot of draftsman, and pays for the repair of "leaking roof".  I admire the maestro...
Last edited on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 03:11 am by tropical-hut
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brudgers
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 02:38 am |
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pgharchintern wrote: In our firm's case, no hires of new employees have been engaged, 3 projects have been farmed out to 2 other architects, a CM/CA firm has been hired by the client for at one project that is to be bid out and now I'm hearing that my paycheck is being held because another client hasn't paid a final fee. So I'm slowly beginning to read the writing on the wall, again. This is really stressing me out. Anyone hiring?
Tell your boss to get a title loan on his car, you're not his f**king personal ATM.
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Kato
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 12:51 pm |
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To mitigate such problems in the future:
During good times, put a line of credit in place for such emergencies so you can meet payroll (for a short time at least)
Situation #1: For any government contracts, which are slow to pay: call/e-mail client once a week after application is submitted to check if paperwork is being submitted. A GC does this to me and it is quite effective. Interest rate for late payments should exceed interest rate on your line of credit.
Situation #3: "Not for construction" stamp goes on all drawings given to client prior to final payment for construction documents. As stipulated by contract, provide for installment payments with each milestone; stop work if intermediate installment payment is not received. Final payment and stamped drawings to be transferred simultaneously as stipulated by contract, especially for first time clients.
Last edited on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 02:21 pm by Kato
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Spellcaster
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 04:06 pm |
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no hires of new employees have been engaged, 3 projects have been farmed out to 2 other architects, a CM/CA firm has been hired by the client for at one project that is to be bid out and now I'm hearing that my paycheck is being held because another client hasn't paid a final fee.
Why is your firm farming out projects to other firms if they have little or no work of their own, and aren't getting paid? I'd think they'd be happy in that scenario to do the work in-house.
Farming out staff (temporary "loan" of personnel) is one of the AIA's recommended courses of action in a scenario where a firm is struggling to pay employees in the short term but expects fees and projects to come in within a few weeks to months. Most AIA chapters have match services to help firms find other firms that can use their staff for awhile. Has your employer looked into this? This is a better first step than laying off staff. Of course it may be hard in these economic times to find other firms who will take on staff even temporarily.
As others are telling you, a firm should really have the reserve capital or a line of available credit to keep up with payroll during these not-unexpected delays with government projects and such.
If the firm can't pay you and can't farm you out then realistically layoffs should be the next step. But, not wanting to lose good employees, some will ask those employees to take the gamble and stick it out for some weeks (or even months) while paychecks are delayed.
It's entirely up to you whether to take that gamble. If you find something else you may want to take it, but if there's not much out there then sticking this out for a few weeks may be a bet you want to take. Or not. Generally lack of timely pay is a valid reason to quit a job and still be eligible to receive unemployment - but check with your DOL as there are some state-specific rules and procedures for that scenario.
On your third non-payment scenario: residential clients are often overwhelmed and blind-sided when they receive a large bill for several months of work all at once. This is more likely to result in delinquent payments, partial payments, or attempts to bargain down the fees than if they are billed bi-weekly or at most once a month.
Even if the bills will be very small for some periods, the firm should make every effort to bill small clients on a frequent and absolutely regular schedule. This helps the client know where they are budget-wise, which makes it more likely that you'll get paid and that the firm won't get way ahead of the client's budget in terms of hours of services provided. Too many firms will continue to work on projects after the clients have already shown signs of budget distress, and thus get hundreds of hours in the hole and have a hard time collecting.
One other thought: for smaller clients (as in your scenario #3) even the AIA contracts for small projects tend to overwhelm the client and aren't very good at explaining the scope of the architect's work in laymen's terms. I'm not a fan of AIA contracts for small private projects.
Most of the smaller firms I've been with have had better luck using a two-page letter agreement that discusses:
1. the nature of schematic design (that the firm averages say 3 to 4 early design passes/schemes on a typical project but that this can vary greatly depending on client and project parameters)
2. the fee structure (I'm a big fan of hourly contracts on small projects, if you can sell the idea to the client)
3. the reasons that either party can stop work on the project, the procedures for doing so, including the amount of notice required, and the expectation that the architect will be paid for his work to date of termination
Have an attorney help you with this letter.
Letter should be signed by both client and architect.Last edited on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 04:22 pm by Spellcaster
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gleearch
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 06:10 pm |
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File a designer's lien.
You have 35 days to perfect the lien and go to court.
The lien works the same way as the contractor's. If the contractor hasn't been paid, you can bet he filed a lien on the property.
There are no easy answers. Everyone out there who has a firm thinks they have the answer and everyone who doesn't is sure they have the answer.
Not getting paid is not the monopoly of architects. I know of lawyers who for some strange and inexplicable reason keep defending clients from creditors when they have not been paid themselves. Go figure.
There are many businesses out there that don't get paid for services or goods rendered. From small to large fortune 500 firms.
If you work on public projects, there is the chance that the state will not pass a budget and in which case you won't get paid. The state can be a dead beat client too.
Just having everyone sign an AIA contract will not guarantee payment. It just means you may have a better chance at recovering a portion of that fee when you go to court. If your fee isn't much you probably will not pursue this in court because your legal fees will surpass anything you are trying to collect. Your liability insurance doesn't cover this unless the client counter sues and claims non payment because of your performance, then your liability insurance kicks in but you have to be willing to take the risks.
Your insurance broker will provide advise on your contract as far as liability is concerned. They won't claim to provide legal advice. Nor will they provide you with much advice on non payment of fees. They normally will point you in the direction of a good bulldog AE lawyer.
You have to do your due diligence. Has the client documented how they will finance the project and pay your fees? Did you read your own contract? There is a paragraph under owners responsibilities that states they have to show that they have the resources to finance the project. Did you ever bother to check to see if they could pay?
Most times on residential projects, nobody ever asks to see the loan docs. In this economy, you need to ask some hard questions of the client. Yes, you know they want that bay window overlooking the beautiful vista below but how are they going to pay for it. If banks are not willing to loan, then they either have to be independantly wealthy or wrangled finacing somehow.
If the client gets miffed and walks away because you ask if they can afford it, well you are probably better off for it.
A good attorney used to tell me this all the time, "Some of the nicest people he has ever known were conmen."
If you run your own firm or work for an architect, well, sooner or later you're going to get hit by a non paying client. In some cases it could be because the firm's owner isn't a good businessman but before you start pointing fingers, remember who the cause is.
The deadbeat client.
The AIA has some good articles on architect's best defense
http://www.aia.org/nwsltr_spf.cfm?pagename=spf_a_0404_offense
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error404
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 06:29 pm |
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In my office when times get bad (like now), the principals would stop paying their salary. If the office account starts getting low, they would add money from their own personal accounts. And as a last solution they would use the credit line to pay salary (so far, it haven't happen).
They do take pride when they say that they always pay on time.
regards,
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tropical-hut
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 07:43 pm |
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error404 wrote: In my office when times get bad (like now), the principals would stop paying their salary. If the office account starts getting low, they would add money from their own personal accounts. And as a last solution they would use the credit line to pay salary (so far, it haven't happen).
They do take pride when they say that they always pay on time.
regards,
My previous boss sold his antique collection to pay for employees salary.
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Spellcaster
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 08:04 pm |
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gleearch wrote:
File a designer's lien...
There are a limited number of states where an architect may file a lien, and in many of those it can only be done if there is an actual constructed product involved - in other words if you have done design or construction drawings but nothing has yet been constructed from them then you cannot file a lien on an existing property that thus far has not been altered as a result of your drawings.
Also a lien has no effect unless/until the property owner attempts to sell the property or use it as collateral. And a lien must be renewed/refiled every so often (usually every year) or it expires. So some property owners will simply ignore the lien, gambling that it will expire and fail to be renewed before they ever plan to sell the property.
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error404
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 08:41 pm |
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tropical-hut wrote: error404 wrote: In my office when times get bad (like now), the principals would stop paying their salary. If the office account starts getting low, they would add money from their own personal accounts. And as a last solution they would use the credit line to pay salary (so far, it haven't happen).
They do take pride when they say that they always pay on time.
regards,
My previous boss sold his antique collection to pay for employees salary.
Wow... that probably hurt a little
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skyhook
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 09:32 pm |
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Leverage for getting paid, sometimes can simply be gained by taking a day off (vacation day) with the stated purpose of beating the bushes for work leads. Pride may kick in, and the paycheck may magically show up, as opposed to having the news released on the streets.
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gleearch
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 09:49 pm |
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Spellcaster wrote: gleearch wrote:
File a designer's lien...
There are a limited number of states where an architect may file a lien, and in many of those it can only be done if there is an actual constructed product involved - in other words if you have done design or construction drawings but nothing has yet been constructed from them then you cannot file a lien on an existing property that thus far has not been altered as a result of your drawings.
Also a lien has no effect unless/until the property owner attempts to sell the property or use it as collateral. And a lien must be renewed/refiled every so often (usually every year) or it expires. So some property owners will simply ignore the lien, gambling that it will expire and fail to be renewed before they ever plan to sell the property. With that said, do your homework and see if you can file a lien in your state.
The post also stated that the contractor had not been paid. while listing a couple other scenarios. If the contractor is involved and has not been paid, that normally would mean something has been placed or installed.
The "designer's lien" applies to design work and not necessarily requires anything to be constructed. Again this differs from state to state. Talk to your attorney or local AIA chapter.
In some cases a "designer's lien" can hold up financing, making it difficult for the developer or client to obtain additional funding or draw upon an active construction loan. In some states it expires after 35 days and requires that you perfect the lien. In other words, go to court. So use judiciously.
What was the point of the owner seeking design services? To build something. In this scenario the designer's lien would put a damper on their ability to do so. It has some weight.
If the intent of the owner was purely speculative, again, their ability to sell the land would be hampered. While for the most part there are not a lot of laws in our favor, in some states you do have some recourse. I have not idea what the laws are like in PA.
As already pointed out, lien laws differ from state to state. Your best bet when you're trying to collect from a non paying client and you have exhausted all other avenues is to talk to your attorney. None of us are attorneys and our postings are not legal advice. Use at your own risk.
Couple of other things. Remember to officially terminate your services in writing and include the reason. At the same time, inform the local planning/ building department. This does nothing more than let them know that no architect is doing CA.
And since some people are lazy, they just tend to print what they have, be ready for calls from contractors asking questions. Sometimes letting them know that you are no longer the architect of record for reasons of non payment sends red flags up all over the place. An owner who does not pay an architect is less likely to pay a contractor even if they are using financing. Notices to your local reprographer about the copyright act and that nobody has the right to plot or make copies of so and so project, does wonders too. They can go to Kinkos but they won't be making copies in a regular AE reprographer. These are just nuisance acts but they do make it a little difficult for the owner.
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8x8
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 12:32 am |
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- Just like your clients interviewing you... You need to Interview your clients. Check if you are dealing with a nut case. Don't jump into any project too eagerly like a puppy seeing a doggy treat.
- Collect money before you start any phase of works. Be firm about this.
- Fire your lousy clients. If you can't collect the final 5 or 10 % . Tell City, Contractor, vendors, client in writing you have fired the looser client. ( You must have a handy termination clause on your contract saying you can terminate any project if the client is not paying )
- Remember your client is not your friends. Collect your money on time. Charge them interest on late payment.Be professional when dealing with clients
- Be organized and control your time and scope. Never let any of your client control your schedule.
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gleearch
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 01:22 am |
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Addressing your other point.
In my last firm, if the firm was not doing well, the principals took pay cuts or no pay at all.
For the employees:
No bonuses were to be expected or raises. Not even costs of living adjustments.
No matching 401K.
Health & Dental remained.
But you got paid.
This was not a big firm. ~20 employees.
I respected them for that.
If your firm has a habit of not paying you first, even in this terrible economy, you are probably better off looking for another job. The writing is on the wall.
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 08:22 pm |
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My boss would sooner sell me than his golf clubs lol.
I was told today that it "might" be another week.
Pittsburgh is not friendly to someone like me without a degree. Doesn't look good on their website to list me, without a degree next to someone with a degree.
I've got a 1.8M dollar nursing home sitting on my desk goint out the door tomorrow. So I'm confused where my paycheck is.
I've lost all faith in many architectural firms in this area. I keep telling myself not to work for any one man bands but they are the only ones hiring it seems.
It seems that so many of these folks are terrible business managers. Typically unorganized, scatterbrained, "forgetful", yet arrogant and egomaniac. I either get someone who has me doing door jamb details by the thousands or I'm doing an entire project including specs, code research and can't take time to go to the potty. And still can't get paid lol.
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grotodmuroferatodwww
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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for me is very easy
I always sit down with a client when we sign the contract I will always make time to agree to the schedule payment. I always tell them that IF they dont pay on time, we will stop the project even if we are doing it for our family.......OFFICE POLICY....write it CLEAN out on the contract.........no one never pay late.
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Spellcaster
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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I rarely see larger firms list their staff's qualifications on their websites. They usually just list the management or most senior handful of people. So it seems unlikely to me that this is what's driving firms to reject someone without a degree.
I guess for purposes of proposals and such some firms might prefer to list staff with degrees - but this usually just means that they leave the non-degreed staff off the proposals, not that they don't hire them at all.
Frankly it's surprising to me that this is a major issue for you. It's more often that we get people on this forum and other similar forums saying that their lack of degree has been no hindrance at all and that all of us who went to architecture school are suckers who wasted not only tuition but several years of earning power. Your experience seems to be a rare one - or at least rarely reported.
I understand from some of your previous posts that you feel that you're discriminated against possibly because of age and also possibly because you're asking for a salary that is higher for your region than what some firms are willing to pay for a CAD tech type of position but that you're maybe a little stuck in that role until you get your license.
If I were in your position I might have to consider whether I'd be better off in the long run if I took a somewhat lower salary, at least for awhile, in order to get a foot in the door in a larger firm where I might have better staying power. It sounds like you've been bounced around quite a bit by smaller firms, and sometimes gypped out of a paycheck. It might work out better in the long run to take the lower salary for awhile than to be repeatedly unemployed for periods of time, or have small-firm employers unable to pay you. (After all a higher salary becomes meaningless if you can't actually collect it some of the time!)
Could you subsist on a lower salary for awhile in a larger firm? You'd probably get better benefits (you mentioned medical expenses) that might help bridge the salary gap. Doing hundreds of door jamb details might not be fun and glamorous but might be a start toward working your way up in a place where you could stay awhile.
Firms tend to like people who are done with IDP and are "exam ready". Have you interviewed much since you reached that milestone?
The more you say about your current position the less it sounds like it's got any real potential to pay you much longer (boss is farming out projects, playing golf all the time, not paying you on time yet expecting you to work weekends, not collecting from delinquent clients, etc. etc.)
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pgharchintern
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 04:32 am |
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Spellcaster wrote: I rarely see larger firms list their staff's qualifications on their websites. They usually just list the management or most senior handful of people. So it seems unlikely to me that this is what's driving firms to reject someone without a degree.
I guess for purposes of proposals and such some firms might prefer to list staff with degrees - but this usually just means that they leave the non-degreed staff off the proposals, not that they don't hire them at all.
Frankly it's surprising to me that this is a major issue for you. It's more often that we get people on this forum and other similar forums saying that their lack of degree has been no hindrance at all and that all of us who went to architecture school are suckers who wasted not only tuition but several years of earning power. Your experience seems to be a rare one - or at least rarely reported.
I understand from some of your previous posts that you feel that you're discriminated against possibly because of age and also possibly because you're asking for a salary that is higher for your region than what some firms are willing to pay for a CAD tech type of position but that you're maybe a little stuck in that role until you get your license.
If I were in your position I might have to consider whether I'd be better off in the long run if I took a somewhat lower salary, at least for awhile, in order to get a foot in the door in a larger firm where I might have better staying power. It sounds like you've been bounced around quite a bit by smaller firms, and sometimes gypped out of a paycheck. It might work out better in the long run to take the lower salary for awhile than to be repeatedly unemployed for periods of time, or have small-firm employers unable to pay you. (After all a higher salary becomes meaningless if you can't actually collect it some of the time!)
Could you subsist on a lower salary for awhile in a larger firm? You'd probably get better benefits (you mentioned medical expenses) that might help bridge the salary gap. Doing hundreds of door jamb details might not be fun and glamorous but might be a start toward working your way up in a place where you could stay awhile.
Firms tend to like people who are done with IDP and are "exam ready". Have you interviewed much since you reached that milestone?
The more you say about your current position the less it sounds like it's got any real potential to pay you much longer (boss is farming out projects, playing golf all the time, not paying you on time yet expecting you to work weekends, not collecting from delinquent clients, etc. etc.)
I've worked hard for the last 31 years Started in 1977. I found out I could go thru IDP, Sit for ARE, and become licensed. When a firm I was working in for 10 months, 23 days - I presented my boss with IDP info and a month later I was canned.
Almost every firm I go to they invite me in for an interview and then I hear nothing.
And now after 5 months, on Dec. 3 it will be my 6 month annaversary, I'd be entitled to a 5 day vacation, but being told my pay is being held up because a client didn't pay an invoice doesn't sit right. The principal farmed out 3 other projects to 2 architects. At one point we were looking at hiring people we had so much work. I am starting to believe that the principal ( he's 71 ) is having a tough time managing things. When I was hired I was told that there was a possibility that I could eventually buy the firm or become a partner. I'd be happy with just getting my paycheck!
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tropical-hut
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