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babybuggs
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 05:45 pm |
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can joists be placed on ext walls?
should decking go to centerline of walls?
bearing walls? have i used properly?
can i leave nothing on the window wall?
Attachment: StructuralLayoutVignetteL1+L2.JPG (Downloaded 317 times)
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stugs
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 05:54 pm |
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babybuggs wrote: can joists be placed on ext walls? Joists extend to the center of exterior walls in all four directions unless they would be sitting parallel on top of a beam. In this case, hold the joist one space off the wall.
should decking go to centerline of walls? Yes
bearing walls? have i used properly? You do not need a bearing wall, or a beam, at the North end of the Cafeteria. There is no need for lateral bracing of bays. You also don't need the beams to the West of the Video Arcade and the East of Storage and Preparation for the same reason. Why did you mix bearing walls with beams and columns? It is best to stick with one or the other solution if possible. Most people in this forum recommend all steel (beam and column) solutions because they are faster to lay out.
can i leave nothing on the window wall? This is correct since nothing is bearing here. You are missing a column on the first level at the SE corner of the Cafeteria. Otherwise you can extend your bearing wall to this corner to support the beams at the Preparation room.
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eq
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 04:57 am |
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stugs wrote: babybuggs wrote: can joists be placed on ext walls? Joists extend to the center of exterior walls in all four directions unless they would be sitting parallel on top of a beam. In this case, hold the joist one space off the wall. could you give an example when this is the case?
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stugs
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 04:34 pm |
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eq wrote: stugs wrote: babybuggs wrote: can joists be placed on ext walls? Joists extend to the center of exterior walls in all four directions unless they would be sitting parallel on top of a beam. In this case, hold the joist one space off the wall. could you give an example when this is the case? Look at the Waiting Room in this post. On the South side there is a beam spanning E-W to support the N-S joists for Video and Delivery rooms. The joists are spanning E-W in the Waiting Room, which is the same direction as the beam. If the Waiting Room joists were to continue so that the last one is on top of the referenced beam, you would have a joist directly on top of a beam when you only need the beam to support the roof above. This last joist would be considered redundant. So, if you are spacing your joists at 4' o.c., hold the last joist 4' from the beam.Last edited on Thu Aug 31st, 2006 04:36 pm by stugs
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eq
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 07:53 pm |
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| thanks a lot. very clear
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babybuggs
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 12:35 am |
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| see following: Last edited on Fri Sep 1st, 2006 12:36 am by babybuggs
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babybuggs
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 12:36 am |
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stugs wrote: You are missing a column on the first level at the SE corner of the Cafeteria. Otherwise you can extend your bearing wall to this corner to support the beams at the Preparation room.
but at the south east corner of the cafeteria, i thought the beams would simply connect to the bearing wall? Isn't a column that is too close to a bearing wall (or directly adjacent) considered redundancy?
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stugs
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 05:36 pm |
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babybuggs wrote: stugs wrote: You are missing a column on the first level at the SE corner of the Cafeteria. Otherwise you can extend your bearing wall to this corner to support the beams at the Preparation room.
but at the south east corner of the cafeteria, i thought the beams would simply connect to the bearing wall? Isn't a column that is too close to a bearing wall (or directly adjacent) considered redundancy?
The beam needs to bear on something, either a column or bearing wall. In order for it to bear on the bearing wall, the wall needs to extend to carry the end of the beam. It looks like your wall stops short of the beam.
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babybuggs
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 07:43 pm |
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ah. ok. And do you have a recommendation for how far the wall should extend past a beam it is supporting? What happens if on the test, there is a beam that is on an exterior wall that needs to bear on something?
Should I place a column there, a bearing all, or is it permissible in this case for the beam to extend to the edge of the bearing wall
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stugs
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Posted: Sat Sep 2nd, 2006 06:06 pm |
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babybuggs wrote: ah. ok. And do you have a recommendation for how far the wall should extend past a beam it is supporting? What happens if on the test, there is a beam that is on an exterior wall that needs to bear on something? If you aren't using bearing walls perpendicular to the beam in question at the end of the beam, then place a column to support the ends of the beams. Otherwise, bear the beam on the bearing wall. Most people work with an all steel solution, meaning beams and columns. I think you may find this easier to work with because you don't have to worry about lintels or where bearing walls can or cannot be used.
Should I place a column there, a bearing all, or is it permissible in this case for the beam to extend to the edge of the bearing wall Since you are working with bearing walls, I would extend the bearing wall the extra inches to support the beam rather than introduce a new material.
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gnrbernstein
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Posted: Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 11:44 pm |
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stugs wrote: babybuggs wrote: can joists be placed on ext walls? Joists extend to the center of exterior walls in all four directions unless they would be sitting parallel on top of a beam. In this case, hold the joist one space off the wall.
You keep telling people to do this and it isn't necessary. Even Prof. Dorf says to just draw the joists as one large rectangle, and don't worry about the "extra" joist. It is just adding angst to an otherwise simple vignette.
~gnr~
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stugs
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Posted: Mon Sep 4th, 2006 05:57 pm |
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gnrbernstein wrote: stugs wrote: babybuggs wrote: can joists be placed on ext walls? Joists extend to the center of exterior walls in all four directions unless they would be sitting parallel on top of a beam. In this case, hold the joist one space off the wall.
You keep telling people to do this and it isn't necessary. Even Prof. Dorf says to just draw the joists as one large rectangle, and don't worry about the "extra" joist. It is just adding angst to an otherwise simple vignette.
~gnr~
In Solutions Professor Dorf advises to be sure decking is supported by EITHER joists, beams, or bearing walls. Here is a post by Dorf calling the condition redundant and advising against it: http://www.areforum.org/forums/view_topic.php?id=8012&forum_id=9&highlight=redundant+joist+dorf+beam
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