little update

[Matt_A]

Ok, here's something y'all might find interesting. This is just a preliminary update, or a progress report.

Last month I sent an email to each of the 54 licensing boards in the US, asking them if they could furnish any data on the duration of internship -- the period between college graduation and licensure. Most of the boards have written me back and said that they have no idea, and don't have easy access to the records. New York however, was willing (for a very nominal fee: $5.85 actually) to provide me with a list of all currently licensed architects, their year of licensure, their year of graduation and school of their degree. It's a fascinating set of information, and I'm still digesting all the data.

Many, many of the records are incomplete. I'm astounded at the proportion of licensees who have their degree by experience (i.e. no accredited degree). The oldest active license was granted in 1952 to someone who graduated in 1948.

Since many of the licensees are reciprocal, and I can't be sure which ones they are, for the purposes of this graph, I have only graphed architects who are residents of NY currently. The data I have does not include architects who have stopped renewing their licenses, but since this chart represents over 6600 people, I'm satisfied that it is probably representative plus or minus a couple percent.

This graph shows the year of licensure of these architects, plotted against the duration of the internship period.



The green line represents the average for the year. For most of the 60s the average internship period was between 5 and 6 years. In the 70s it dropped to between 4 and 5 years. By the end of the 1980s the average was 7 years. It climbed through the 90s to 8 1/2 years, and the chart clearly shows when NY State began issuing licenses more frequently than twice a year. The average time between graduation and licensure in this data from New York in 2009 is 11.06 years. The median time is currently 9.96 years. edit: this means these recently-minted-architects were graduating from high school around the time when Bill and Monica were getting friendly.

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I think a couple other states might be able to provide some more information to me; if and when they do I intend to update my site at stairwaytoarchitecture.com with a full report, with diagrams with circles and arrows on them and a paragraph on the back of each one....

oh yeah, one more thing...
Last month I also sent a similar request for information to each of the accredited programs of architecture in the US, something over a hundred of them, asking if they have any information on the licensure rates of their alumni. The answers have been trickling in, and I can summarize them very compactly: they have absolutely NFI.

[oakdale]

Nice graph!

NY doesn't require a NAAB degree and the kind of education the Architects have determines their length of experience before licensure. Interns without a professional degree are required to have longer periods of experience.

with a NAAB accredited professional degree - 3 years experience
with a pre-professional degree - 5 years
with "completion of courses in architecturally-related professions" - 7 years
with "Successful completion of postsecondary architecturally-related technical education" - 8 years
with "Successful completion of courses in a non-architectural college program" - 10 years

[Matt_A]

Originally Posted by oakdale

Nice graph!

NY doesn't require a NAAB degree and the kind of education the Architects have determines their length of experience before licensure. Interns without a professional degree are required to have longer periods of experience.

with a NAAB accredited professional degree - 3 years experience
with a pre-professional degree - 5 years
with "completion of courses in architecturally-related professions" - 7 years
with "Successful completion of postsecondary architecturally-related technical education" - 8 years
with "Successful completion of courses in a non-architectural college program" - 10 years

Thanks oakdale. That chart only shows licensees who live in ny and have a degree. There are a total of 15,000 total licensees and about 1000 of them are licensed by experience in lieu of education. I will be providing a more complete set of charts in the next couple weeks. You can be sure these categories will be broken out.

[brudgers]

Wow.

The last time the average was five years was 1983.

That's the same year the ARE was introduced.

[sandersdad]

Thanks for the post Matt. Wish their was a way to measure the quality of architects as well. I have little doubt that a graph of that would follow the inverse of your graph. Instead of trying to attract better talent in the industry. NCARB and the boards do exactly the opposite to protect their boys. It would also be dramatic to show as an overlay of this the market share of building projects for architects in percentage and compared to engineers and contractor led projects who don't have these enormous hoop jumping exercises.

After recently completing my masters, I found the ignorance concerning the industry by the faculty and the students that follow them to be mind boggling. Most believe you don't have to know how to build to be an architect. (It's not rocket science.) An artist that does not understand their medium is called a joke.

There has to come a time when the public finally figures this out and says enough. At that point, the industry will either vanish or be rebuilt.

[OF 3]

Originally Posted by brudgers

Wow.

The last time the average was five years was 1983.

That's the same year the ARE was introduced.

This is fantastic Matt A!

A little bit of insight into why I think the ignominious One Fella was such an unhappy camper:

When he was researching the profession the AIA, NAAB, and NCARB I'm sure he came across the same information wherein the AIA/ NCARB/ and NAAB all advertised the internship process as a 3 year process post graduation.

In reality what he probably found was probably similar to what I encountered in the real world (only after being lied to):

#1 The complicitness of recent graduates in pursuing licensure and holding the establishment to its commitments (a bunch of complicit procrastinators who were purposefully "weeded/ filtered in" to the rank and file of the profession by the very NAAB programs that are really supposed to protect the profession by "weeding out" the incompetent)

#2 The deviousness of the established (99.9% AIA) practicioners in perpetuating the problem by not taking Licensure seriously and/ or the intent of the Intern Development program in providing meaningful experience.

I'm guessing this is one of the big reasons that One Fella's panties were in such a bunch over the profession (before he was banned at least).

Pisses me off too. This profession has almost zero credibility for good reason. Even her own practicioners trust the establishment (AIA, NAAB, NCARB, et al) about as much as the local used car saleman. When they are called on to explain their lies they just play the lawyer and inevitably just bloviate about how they just have no way of knowing these things. Honest professionals say "I don't know" when they don't know. An honest profession doesn't advertise 3 years when anecdotal and real world evidence indicates more like 10.

Little wonder the profession is mostly illegitimate in the 21st century marketplace. It now has as much credibility as Enron, both from within and without. A veritable professional PONZI scheme.

[OF 3]

I Hope everyone thinking of or those who are already inching though the IDP process realizes how HUGE this information is that Matt A has begun to uncover!

This is exactly what the powers that be DON'T want prospective and current "interns" to know!!!

I mean we're talking 10-3 = 7 additional years of the typical life here. And usually they aren't just any years...they are the best years of life.

This deserves a permanant link at the top of this section!

[jmcarr]

Is this why some states have begun allowing candidates to take exams concurrently with IDP?

I am curious: do candidates believe their firm supports IDP and will take appropriate measures to ensure their interns fulfill their training requirements? Or, do candidates believe firms present an obstacle to fulfilling the IDP requirements?

It seems like some firms act duplicitously. They will say they support IDP, but in reality, these firms expect Interns to produce 3-D models all day long. Candidates are expected to work overtime to fulfill their IDP credits. Is this situation commonplace?

[Matt_A]

this data is kind of interesting. Here's a couple more:





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when the ARE was introduced in 1983, more than half the licensees in NY took less than 5 years to get there. Today, more than half take more than 10 years. NY State has an "experience in lieu of education" route. It might provide a quicker path to licensure! Looks like more and more people are taking advantage of it.

I don't know if IDP is functioning as designed, but it sure as hell isn't functioning as advertised.

[OF 3]

Originally Posted by jmcarr

...do candidates believe firms present an obstacle to fulfilling the IDP requirements?

It seems like some firms act duplicitously. They will say they support IDP, but in reality, these firms expect Interns to produce 3-D models all day long. Candidates are expected to work overtime to fulfill their IDP credits. Is this situation commonplace?

In my experience, absolutely. I would have worked overtime had the opportunity for completing the units in the particularly hard areas to acquire experience from employers been made available. They never were. I began to see the pattern: bait the intern to get them in the door to work for slave's wages, then hold back all the promises in order to induce a sense of desperation and vulnerability in order to keep the new CAD jockey busy, busy, busy endlessly moving different colored lines around on a computer screen. Somebody has to do it, right? Why not the recent grads who have proven their meddle in the contemporary NAAB system where its all about the manipulation of technology now? Trouble is, this experience really is IT experience not that which would edify a prospective "master builder".

By the time I completed IDP I had worked at 6 different firms. Before I was hired, at every single one I expressed my intent to focus on the activities as laid out in the IDP program in order to complete the required units.

I have many stories to tell. Sufficit to say that basically at every firm where I worked the same story was played out over and over again...reassure me at the interview that yes IDP is important to firm XYZ in order to get me in the door. When the times came to actually follow up and offer the necessary experience in the necessary categories there really always was some excuse or another, stalling, and just general stonewalling.

This is when I would find a way out the door in order to get past the NCARB/ AIA imposed glass ceiling, why I moved around to different firms often. I hated it but the fact is that there is no way that I would be done today and would have my Architect's license at any of those firms had I stayed longer than I did because the stonewall to completing the units in a comprehensive and timely way was waaaay too thick and high.

In the end I had been sold IDP as a 3 year investment. Had I just gone with the flow I'm certain the 3 years would have somehow morphed into 7-10. As it was I completed it in 3.5 years but the price was way heavy and as I've come to realize the typical intern doesn't have the audacity necessary to sacrifice whats necessary in order to navigate the guantlett efficiently and timely...so the AIA/ NCARB firms keep doing what they are doing and the interns keep mindlessly doing what they are doing. It is basically worse than being a member of a union because the "members" of this union don't even know that they have been made members of it by the AIA/ NCARB establishment.

One of the principal problem is, for the time and effort there are no benefits for the intern to being a member of the AIA/ NCARB union. There isn't even the expectation of a signed agreement or contract in order to delineate mutual obligations. Its all a win for the AIA/ NCARB union and all lose for the individuals stuck inside the system. The typical intern has no more leverage or legal legitimacy than the average illegal alien slaving away in the local meat packing plant. The AIA/ NCARB employers love it obviously, in the same way that the employers of slave labor love slavery and misery...no skin off their backs right, and isn't that the 21st century American way? (Smile and say one thing to get in the door and then go back as far as possible on all the promises).